FDA Regulations and Bulk?

[aguineapig]

I am going to go ahead and start a new thread asking this question, because to me, and probably to some others, the prospect of no bulk purchases is almost worse than losing new Pease releases, the Marquee series, etc. 90%+ of my tobacco is bulk, and it would be a huge blow to my attempt at keeping the costs of my pipe smoking reigned in if I could only buy tins, or otherwise packaged/portioned tobacco.
Has anybody successfully translated the verdict on bulk sales into understandable language?

 

[mso489]

I'm not the legal or regulatory scholar here. My understanding was the regulations bear on when a blend or single-leaf tobacco was introduced on the market, not how it is packaged. That hasn't crossed my radar if it is so. I don't smoke enough quantity to be dependent on bulk, but I have several favorite bulk blends and would miss the savings. I thought they would just plaster the great big warning label on the baggy. However, as I understand, those magnificent tobacco samples at pipe shows are gone forever, maybe at pipe shops too.
I'm reviewing the Iwan Ries Three Star series, since many of their blends were introduced decades ago, or longer. Ulysses S. Grant probably bought some of his cigars from them, as perhaps did Samuel Clemens.

 

[pipesmokingtom]

I think bulk tobacco is fine, in and of itself.
The major problem comes when you rename it. For example, Lane 1Q, which has been around forever, will be grandfathered in. If a pipe shop renames it "Smokey Joe's Bombastic Aromatic" or whatever, then it's a new product and needs an application, the pipe shop needs a manufacturer's license, etc.
IMO, bulks will be easier to get through since the packaging doesn't have to get the FDA's blessing. The bag will have to have a warning sticker on it, though.
This is all my interpretation and understanding, of course. Anyone else pondered on this or have input?

My understanding was the regulations bear on when a blend or single-leaf tobacco was introduced on the market, not how it is packaged.

I think the packaging is equally important in the FDA's eyes, actually. Those Frogs on the Logs might be appealing to children. I'm being a tad tongue in cheek there, but seriously, labels will have to get reviewed and approved for those reasons.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Indeed. My four year old nephew took right to a Frog Morton tin, loaded up one of my larger Savs, and spent an hour behind the woodshed. I am reporting him to the FDA, IRS, Child Protective Services, and CIA, as obviously he's a good subversive.

 

[jmatt]

I know it started as sarcasm, but I'm betting a lot of C&D labels will have to change. Especially anything with a cartoonish picture that is newer than 2007. Even if the tobacco itself is older than 2007, if the art is newer I think they'd have to revert back.

 

[sablebrush52]

There is an issue with bulk. Under the Regs, repackaging bulk requires the tobacconist to be a licensed manufacturer. This is one stoopid Reg.
Definition Of a Tobacco Product Manufacturer:

FD&C Act § 900(20) defines “tobacco product manufacturer” as:

“any person, including any repacker or relabeler, who-

(A) manufactures, fabricates, assembles, processes, or labels a tobacco product; or

(B) imports a finished tobacco product for sale or distribution in the United States.”

•

Compliance policy for small-scale tobacco product manufacturer - Employs 150 or fewer full-time equivalent employees and has annual total revenues of $5,000,000 or less.

9

 

[jacks6]

So basically everyone is now able to only buy 1lb, 3lb, or 5lb bags. However they come direct from the manufacturer.

 

[pipesmokingtom]

They could still come from a retailer, so long as the packages aren't changed between production and sale, seems to me?
Edit: So retailers selling bulk should still be fine, we just may have less flexibility in quantity since retailers can't realistically repackage any more. Manufacturers may just have to send out bulk in various pre-portioned quantities. That may drive cost of bulk up...

 

[sablebrush52]

So basically everyone is now able to only buy 1lb, 3lb, or 5lb bags. However they come direct from the manufacturer.

They could still come from a retailer, so long as the packages aren't changed between production and sale, seems to me?

Yep. Bulk can be sold, but can only be packaged for sale by someone with a tobacco manufacturer's license. For a small tobacconist to handle bulk, it will have to come prepackaged from the manufacturer.

 

[jndyer]

I would love to get a clear answer on this proposition because my favorite tobacco (like 99% of what I smoke) is Lane RLP-6. Maybe I will have to start buying the 5lbs bags and packing into jars. I guess time will tell. Hopefully we have this answer weeks or months before any change to bulks take effect.

 

[pipesmokingtom]

Those changes take effect next month. We will know how this is going to work fairly soon, unless some sort of stay happens.
Pretty much no more cruising in to your B&M and ordering out of the jar, though. Unless they apply for a manufacturer's license. Wonder how much that costs. Probably more than a little bit.

 

[pipe12]

wtf law makers and y do they have to ruin everything.

 

[jpmcwjr]

It's less the lawmakers per se than the overreaching administrative units they've created over the decades. Please use capitalization and spelling as per standard English.

 

[mso489]

Not being a smart ass, but what if the pipe shop has the product in five pound bags with its huge "eye chart" warning label and I bring my own ziplock type bag from home and load it up. He's not repackaging it, and I'm not repackaging it to sell, so ... is everyone happy? Just asking.

 

[sablebrush52]

Not being a smart ass, but what if the pipe shop has the product in five pound bags with its huge "eye chart" warning label and I bring my own ziplock type bag from home and load it up. He's not repackaging it, and I'm not repackaging it to sell, so ... is everyone happy? Just asking.

No.

It's less the lawmakers per se than the overreaching administrative units they've created over the decades.

Phillip Morris and R J Reynolds lobbied for this law to wipe out competition and give themselves a virtual monopoly. Congress obliged.

 

[foolwiththefez]

Phillip Morris and R J Reynolds lobbied for this law to wipe out competition and give themselves a virtual monopoly

Thank you. That so often gets overlooked when the new regs come up and it is the most infuriating part. They did the same thing years back when they wiped out "flavored" cigarettes because they appealed to teens and kids but (conincidentally) Phillip Morris didn't sell any flavored cigarettes.

 

[tedvig]

Follow the money...

 

[tmb152]

So basically everyone is now able to only buy 1lb, 3lb, or 5lb bags. However they come direct from the manufacturer.

I think it likely that you will see 16 oz., 8 oz., and 4 oz. packages, so not to worry.

 

[mso489]

One take-home lesson seems to be, be sure to sample enough blends to identify those you could enjoy in larger quantities. This is easy for some folks who remain infatuated with specific blends. We have members who are eternally devoted to Condor, Royal Yacht, Penzance, or some other prized blend. Personally, I'd find it difficult to pin myself down to years of one blend. I have at least two-dozen blends on hand, open in jars and available. And maybe twice that much, in sealed tins and slightly larger average quantities. Sometimes I'll get a blend, thoroughly enjoy it, but veer off into something else and not come back for a year or more. So the vision of a pound of one blend, let alone five pounds, is not a happy thought for me. Good for those of you who are steadfast to at least a few blends. It can take me years to smoke through a tub of tobacco I enjoy very much, as I branch off to other blends along the way. I had a tub of Granger for years, slowly puffing it down.

 

[mso489]

Does R.J. Reynolds or Philip Morris "play" in the pipe tobacco market or own pipe tobacco interests? Or is pipe tobacco (and pipes!) just collateral damage to their kanoodling? If they are into selling premium pipe tobacco, I haven't made the connection.