FDA Begins Unannounced Inspections of Pipe Makers

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trouttimes

Lifer
Nov 26, 2018
5,169
21,491
Lake Martin, AL
Greatdane, NEVER underestimate whispering in the right ear in congress. I know of what I speak. One person or a few that get to the right people can move the world..

 

greatdane

Might Stick Around
Dec 26, 2018
66
27
Troutimes, that is a good point. I know my Congressman (Scott Tipton) is one of the good guys in this fight. One of of handful of smokers rights advocates in Congress.

 

olkofri

Lifer
Sep 9, 2017
8,033
14,644
The Arm of Orion
How about a pipe smokers march on Washington. Thousands of pipe smokers carrying placards of Gerald Ford, Einstein, and other cultural icons who were pipe smokers. Sounds like of ludicrous, but so is this repression. And it will be in the news, which is more than can be said for letter writing campaigns or debates in pipe forums. Rally in front of the FDA and hold up a tobacco leaf and a block of wood and tell the news media that the FDA thinks they are the same.

Something like this, Sable?
colonial-smoking-protest-granger.jpg

Yup, I dream about that kind of thing every time a new anti-smoking regulation goes up institutionally, locally, or nation-wide, but I seriously doubt it'd work. Personally, I'm not a fan of activism, one reason being that I haven't seen it work very well for many causes, especially when they are in the minority. I've seen placard-carrying pro-lifers silenty protest, and get nowhere, except jail for some. Other louder causes don't get anywhere either; I saw that with the protests against the migration pact last December in Ottawa and Calgary, and the thing was still signed.
As for being in the news, well, can you guarantee that? Maybe it's still a bit different in your country, but the news skew strongly in the direction of the political movement that is waging the war against tobacco. We'll get little to no sympathy for them. They won't even show up to report it, and if they're forced to show up, they'll downplay it, bury it in the bottom of the inmost page of their publications, AND insert their own spin to boot. I've seen this happen continuously. Now that the governments are in control of the media, it's hopeless. Heck, a major scandal is going on in Canada right now, and the media is silent.
When I suggested above about doing something I wasn't thinking about marches or, God forbid, going anti-fa-like on the government. I was thinking more of a concerted effort on the part of both consumer and industry groups to challenge these abuses in the courts. Alas, the article already pointed out a big problem: pipe makers are individualists. The 'rugged individualist' might be a very revered American image, but individualism simply doesn't work. Atomisation simply works to these bozos' advantage. If Satan were divided, how could his regulation corps stand? He isn't, and his minions prevail. We are, and we're the ones who can't stand. Yeats couldn't have said it better: 'the good lack all conviction, while the bad are full of passionate intensity'.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,625
44,837
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Yikes the guy is quoting Yeats at me! Somebody confiscate his library for the public good!
As for being in the news, well, can you guarantee that?
Nope, no more than I can guarantee that you're not a three headed Sgloth convict escaped from the planet Therazoid. But I have been in and around media for 40 years and a good colorful story might very well get coverage if it will sell soap. Putting a human face to an anonymous generalization can be effective.
As for seeking relief from the legal system, that has been going on since the FDA Deeming rules were published, with some success. Most of that action has been taken on the behalf of the cigar industry, not on the behalf of pipe smokers.

 
May 3, 2010
6,423
1,461
Las Vegas, NV
So, Jeff registered voluntarily in the sense that he chose not to stop making pipes. But that's a pretty broad interpretation of 'voluntary'.
Volun-told as it were.
Big ups to Sykes and SP for helping out the amazing carvers. I heard a bit about this when Tom Palmer from Peterson was in Las Vegas back in 2015 I think it was. He was saying as he knew it the FDA was going to enforce the registration per sku on pipes just as blends. In the pipe case you'd need a sku for an 03 rusticated system, a different one for an 03 sandblasted system, and a different one for an 03 smooth system, and a different one for an 03 red finish, and a different one for an 03 dress black finish. It's quite an absurdity.
Personally I think in some cases regulations are good. This is not really one of those cases. For one they aren't doing any studies into the products to find out how they should be regulated. The FDA in this case is basically like an HOA, just a group of old people with nothing better to do than stir the s*it pot.

 

aldecaker

Lifer
Feb 13, 2015
4,407
42
"Cosmic has Nerf balls." Oh yeah? Well, it just so happens my wife has a giant Libertarian plug. So there.

 
May 8, 2017
1,593
1,627
Sugar Grove, IL, USA
Reflecting on this further, what I would really like to know is, what regulations regarding pipemaking were they ensuring were being followed? Do they even exist? Or was this possibly more of an educational fact-finding mission for the possible establishment of regulations? It kind of sounded like the latter to me.

 

npod

Lifer
Jun 11, 2017
2,942
1,024
fact-finding mission for the possible establishment of regulations? It kind of sounded like the latter to me.

My educated guess with a dash of knowledge concludes that is exactly what is going on. I consult with the FDA frequently. You’d be amazed at the lack of precedence in Washington.

 

aldecaker

Lifer
Feb 13, 2015
4,407
42
"Fact"-finding mission my ass. They may be looking for information or ammunition for their enforcement bullshit, but facts they are not interested in.

 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
11,582
15,255
SE PA USA
As a former Federal Firearms Licensee, I have this to share: When you sign up to supervised and regulated by the government, the government will supervise and regulate you.

 

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
9,603
14,669
^ That analogy doesn't work for me...because of this:
It's not voluntary. It's required under federal regulations. Registering was a requirement for continuing to make pipes
You have to "sign up" if you want an FFL to begin with. In this case they're requiring people who are already carving pipes to sign up if they want to continue their trade.
As I commented previously...the absurdity of it creates the perception of the actions being taken against tobacco to be reasonable and acceptable by comparison. And IMO, that's probably the primary reason for the "overreach".

 

olkofri

Lifer
Sep 9, 2017
8,033
14,644
The Arm of Orion
Yep, it's a hobson's choice. Like SGI here: you wanna own a car? You have to have insurance through us. You can buy extra insurance with your favourite company if you so want, but if you're not buying the basic coverage from us, the gov't company, you don't drive. Your "choice".

 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
11,582
15,255
SE PA USA
I'm not saying that it's just, equitable or constitutional. I'm just saying that a casual visit from your helpful Federal Agent shouldn't come as a surprise.

 

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
9,603
14,669
^ True. But to me the main point of the whole post was the "overreach"...not so much that public servants showed up.

 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
11,582
15,255
SE PA USA
My read was that it was just as much about the umbrage of having FDA inspectors show up. “I was so shocked,” is the theme that runs through this article. While I applaud the pipemaker's willingness to comply with as-of-yet undefined requirements and regulations of the FDA, and to submit to regulation that may or may not apply to them, I am dumbfounded that they are surprised when the government does what it told them it would do: show up and inspect them.
I applaud Sykes and Laudisi for helping their suppliers navigate the swamp, but they should also provide some training as to what to expect when the FDA shows up, what the inspectors are allowed to do/see and what is/isn't required of the premises owner/permit holder at that time. Giving the FDA free reign is not the correct response.

 

litup

Part of the Furniture Now
Oct 16, 2015
722
2,206
Sacramento, CA
Given that it doesn't sound like the FDA inspectors even knew what they were going to ask, look for, or investigate, it doesn't seem possible that Laudisi (or anyone else for that matter) would have any idea what someone should expect during an inspection.

 

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
9,603
14,669
@Woods: Yeah, I do agree that no one should be "shocked" that they showed up. I wasn't referring so much to the article as to the discussion here in this thread.

 
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