Favorite Virginia Tobaccos?

[Scottmi]

Have you compared Ampersand Flake to the 150th Anniversary Blend?

i have both and consider them very different. ampersand flake is the more 'pure virginia' to me, by far. and has a wonderful honey-sweetness.

 

[Old_Newby]

Hopefully I can help ease your concerns a bit. I work for C&D and buying the tobacco we use in our blends is a major part of my job as Head Blender. I think you make a valid point. It would be awful for all of us if there was no differentiation or grading to determine leaf quality or style. That would really suck. Picture going to the meat market and finding that all they have is 60/40 ground beef. No filet, no porterhouse, no ribeye, no brisket... No Prime, Choice or Select...it's all been ground together. What a nightmare that would be. But thankfully that is not the situation, either at my butcher shop or when I go shopping for tobacco for C&D. Categories and grading are really important so that the customer (manufacturer) knows what to look for and so that the supplier knows what to charge them.

We talk a lot about Red Virginia in pipe tobacco, and some in the hobby even go so far as to associate it specifically with McClelland, but really it's a color category set up in the USDA grade code for Flue Cured Tobacco which was developed back in the 1800's. "Red Virginia" simply refers to upper stalk leaves on a Virginia type tobacco plant that have ripened fully and are then cured in such a way to achieve a deep red color. Mahogany, Red, Red Orange, Orange, Lemon, and Pale leaf can all be produced from a single plant, as these each come from different parts of the plant. The bottom leaves are harvested earliest and produce a pale leaf with little flavor, thin body and virtually no nicotine. Not tobacco we would ever use in anything. Later, the leaves from the mid stalk are harvested, and these produce brighter Lemon and some Orange leaf, with a high sugar content, moderate flavor and mild to moderate nicotine levels. This is what is referred to generally as Bright Virginia, and high quality leaf in this type is invaluable to creating sweet VA blends. Last, the leaves from the upper stalk are harvested, late in the life of the plant. These leaves are typically picked when they are ripe to overripe, and can be used to produce Orange, Red Orange, Red or Mahogany leaf depending on variable factors such as weather, soil conditions, and how long the leaves are left to mature on the stalk. The curing methods used by the farmer post harvest, play a role in color development, as well. These upper stalk leaves have a deep flavor, pronounced strength and more moderate sugar. This is not a style in much danger of disappearing, as it is in high demand with manufacturers of all kinds of tobacco products, and not just for pipe tobacco. Red Virginia is not unique to any particular farm, and lots of it is produced every year.

All US tobacco is meticulously sorted and graded by stalk position, color, maturity, consistency and crop year prior to sale. This has been the case for well over 100 years. This sorting and grading process is integral to how tobacco is brought to market, because the grade is what determines price. Manufacturers will have different needs for the leaf they purchase, depending on what they are making, but sourcing tobacco from particular growing regions, with particular color ranges, nicotine or sugar levels etc., is pretty baked into the process of purchasing tobacco. Focusing in on tobacco from a particular farm can be tricky, but is certainly possible. We have secured several single farm crops over the years, but it's not really the kind of thing you can easily plan for. One farm may shine in a particular style this year, but next year their crop may suffer or may shine but in a different style. Farming is, in part, an exercise in gambling on the weather with borrowed money. Especially for crops with decidedly coastal growing regions such as Virginia tobacco. For that reason alone, regional consolidation combined with meticulous grading of crops is very beneficial to the manufacturer. Can you imagine anyone visiting 1,000 farms every year to see who has the best crop of 'X" ? I would never get any blending done!

We have only one strictly farm-direct tobacco that we source: Perique grown and processed in St. James Parish, LA by the Roussell family at 31 Farms. Also a weather battered area and a risky crop each year, but Perique is so niche, so rare and so difficult to produce, that the only way to ensure the quality, consistency, and volumes we need was to form an exclusive partnership with a highly skilled boutique farm operation. For Virginia leaf, the total crop last year was 280 million pounds. Much more accessible.

At C&D, we are very selective about our tobacco, regardless of style, and I personally choose all of the tobaccos that we blend with after careful evaluation and smoke comparisons against previous grades in that style. Quality and Consistency are the goal when I am selecting leaf. We have some very old stock of tobacco that has aged and mellowed beautifully and have prized characteristics, but we also purchase plenty of the high quality leaf we use from currently produced crops. Red Virginia in our storage currently ranges from crop 2003 to 2022,, and we will be picking up more from this style and others in the coming harvest for 2023. The crop this year looks very promising and the darker upper stalk primings will be coming to market in the next few weeks.

Others in this thread including @sablebrush52 have listed Yorktown, Opening Night or GL Pease Union Square among their favorite VA blends, which, of course, I am happy to see! These three blends are all currently produced with NC grown Red Virginia leaf from the 2017 and 2019 crop. Carolina Red Flake 2022 was made with Red Virginia leaf from the 2020 crop and has turned out to be one of our most popular iterations of that blend to date.

McClelland closed their doors in 2018. I won't say finding high quality leaf has gotten any easier since then, and perhaps some years it's harder, but speaking from experience, there is definitely good tobacco available for discerning manufacturers to use.

Thanks so much for details. Very interesting. I understand if you’re too busy to answer but does C&D try to collect the highest sugar content middle plant leaves and create a highly sweetened blend? Or is that not how it works to get sweetness?

 

[PaulTheScandinavian]

Thank you Jeremy @jeremyreeves for taking time out to provide such an insightful answer.

I’m not much of a VA smoker and without my knowing much about how Red VA is harvested, I surprisingly took to Winchester and have jarred several pounds of it. I speak highly of Winchester often. I find it such an interesting and flavorful blend.

Thanks again and many of us here thoroughly enjoy your work.

Same here ,I'm not much of a Virginia smoker either but I wonder what this Winchester might be?I'm familiar with that renowned 40-44 rifle..Is there Wichester Tobacco brand as well?

 

[Grangerous]

Same here ,I'm not much of a Virginia smoker either but I wonder what this Winchester might be?I'm familiar with that renowned 40-44 rifle..Is there Wichester Tobacco brand as well?

It’s C&D Winchester. It’s Red Virginia and Unsweetened Black Cavendish.

The result is a naturally sweet almost wine like smoke with cigar notes.

No topping. Just the flavor of the tobacco’s. A real sleeper.

 

[PaulTheScandinavian]

It’s C&D Winchester. It’s Red Virginia and Unsweetened Black Cavendish.

The result is a naturally sweet almost wine like smoke with cigar notes.

No topping. Just the flavor of the tobacco’s. A real sleeper.

Indeed sounds appealing to me

 

[proteus]

Top three virginias today

Newminster 400
Sutlif 507c va slices
CD opening night.

 

[Old_Newby]

For all those who have built up a cellar of McClelland you need to share with us newbies who never got a puff of it. Just send me a PM and I will give you my info.

 

[Sethology12]

Hopefully I can help ease your concerns a bit. I work for C&D and buying the tobacco we use in our blends is a major part of my job as Head Blender. I think you make a valid point. It would be awful for all of us if there was no differentiation or grading to determine leaf quality or style. That would really suck. Picture going to the meat market and finding that all they have is 60/40 ground beef. No filet, no porterhouse, no ribeye, no brisket... No Prime, Choice or Select...it's all been ground together. What a nightmare that would be. But thankfully that is not the situation, either at my butcher shop or when I go shopping for tobacco for C&D. Categories and grading are really important so that the customer (manufacturer) knows what to look for and so that the supplier knows what to charge them.

We talk a lot about Red Virginia in pipe tobacco, and some in the hobby even go so far as to associate it specifically with McClelland, but really it's a color category set up in the USDA grade code for Flue Cured Tobacco which was developed back in the 1800's. "Red Virginia" simply refers to upper stalk leaves on a Virginia type tobacco plant that have ripened fully and are then cured in such a way to achieve a deep red color. Mahogany, Red, Red Orange, Orange, Lemon, and Pale leaf can all be produced from a single plant, as these each come from different parts of the plant. The bottom leaves are harvested earliest and produce a pale leaf with little flavor, thin body and virtually no nicotine. Not tobacco we would ever use in anything. Later, the leaves from the mid stalk are harvested, and these produce brighter Lemon and some Orange leaf, with a high sugar content, moderate flavor and mild to moderate nicotine levels. This is what is referred to generally as Bright Virginia, and high quality leaf in this type is invaluable to creating sweet VA blends. Last, the leaves from the upper stalk are harvested, late in the life of the plant. These leaves are typically picked when they are ripe to overripe, and can be used to produce Orange, Red Orange, Red or Mahogany leaf depending on variable factors such as weather, soil conditions, and how long the leaves are left to mature on the stalk. The curing methods used by the farmer post harvest, play a role in color development, as well. These upper stalk leaves have a deep flavor, pronounced strength and more moderate sugar. This is not a style in much danger of disappearing, as it is in high demand with manufacturers of all kinds of tobacco products, and not just for pipe tobacco. Red Virginia is not unique to any particular farm, and lots of it is produced every year.

All US tobacco is meticulously sorted and graded by stalk position, color, maturity, consistency and crop year prior to sale. This has been the case for well over 100 years. This sorting and grading process is integral to how tobacco is brought to market, because the grade is what determines price. Manufacturers will have different needs for the leaf they purchase, depending on what they are making, but sourcing tobacco from particular growing regions, with particular color ranges, nicotine or sugar levels etc., is pretty baked into the process of purchasing tobacco. Focusing in on tobacco from a particular farm can be tricky, but is certainly possible. We have secured several single farm crops over the years, but it's not really the kind of thing you can easily plan for. One farm may shine in a particular style this year, but next year their crop may suffer or may shine but in a different style. Farming is, in part, an exercise in gambling on the weather with borrowed money. Especially for crops with decidedly coastal growing regions such as Virginia tobacco. For that reason alone, regional consolidation combined with meticulous grading of crops is very beneficial to the manufacturer. Can you imagine anyone visiting 1,000 farms every year to see who has the best crop of 'X" ? I would never get any blending done!

We have only one strictly farm-direct tobacco that we source: Perique grown and processed in St. James Parish, LA by the Roussell family at 31 Farms. Also a weather battered area and a risky crop each year, but Perique is so niche, so rare and so difficult to produce, that the only way to ensure the quality, consistency, and volumes we need was to form an exclusive partnership with a highly skilled boutique farm operation. For Virginia leaf, the total crop last year was 280 million pounds. Much more accessible.

At C&D, we are very selective about our tobacco, regardless of style, and I personally choose all of the tobaccos that we blend with after careful evaluation and smoke comparisons against previous grades in that style. Quality and Consistency are the goal when I am selecting leaf. We have some very old stock of tobacco that has aged and mellowed beautifully and have prized characteristics, but we also purchase plenty of the high quality leaf we use from currently produced crops. Red Virginia in our storage currently ranges from crop 2003 to 2022,, and we will be picking up more from this style and others in the coming harvest for 2023. The crop this year looks very promising and the darker upper stalk primings will be coming to market in the next few weeks.

Others in this thread including @sablebrush52 have listed Yorktown, Opening Night or GL Pease Union Square among their favorite VA blends, which, of course, I am happy to see! These three blends are all currently produced with NC grown Red Virginia leaf from the 2017 and 2019 crop. Carolina Red Flake 2022 was made with Red Virginia leaf from the 2020 crop and has turned out to be one of our most popular iterations of that blend to date.

McClelland closed their doors in 2018. I won't say finding high quality leaf has gotten any easier since then, and perhaps some years it's harder, but speaking from experience, there is definitely good tobacco available for discerning manufacturers to use.

Dang I did not expect to come back to the forum to see Jeremy reeves himself reassuring me! This has seriously assuaged my fears and corrected some fear mongering induced misconceptions about modern day tobacco processing. This is very much appreciated!

 

[Sethology12]

For all those who have built up a cellar of McClelland you need to share with us newbies who never got a puff of it. Just send me a PM and I will give you my info.

I actually would be willing to send a sample baggy of my 40th anniversary if you wanted to try it. It's definitely unique. But after alot more time with pipe tobacco I've realized it's not as unbeatable as I was led to believe. For my tastes I often prefer capstan or union Square. But mcllelands reds are definitely rich...sometimes too much so for me.

 

[orvet]

Recently I am enjoying Newminster 400 and 403 which which has perique. I also find Charatan flake to be quite tasty.

 

[Old_Newby]

I actually would be willing to send a sample baggy of my 40th anniversary if you wanted to try it. It's definitely unique. But after alot more time with pipe tobacco I've realized it's not as unbeatable as I was led to believe. For my tastes I often prefer capstan or union Square. But mcllelands reds are definitely rich...sometimes too much so for me.

I much appreciate it but better not. I don’t want to live something I cannot get so appreciate the thought.

 

[sardonicus87]

I'll be honest, I haven't tried many VAs. But I do have two favorites off hand I have tried: Savinelli Brunello Flake and C&D House Reserve from fall 2021 (a mix of stoved and unstoved VA). House Reserve is only available at B&M tobacconists, but you can always look online at C&D to see what the current House Reserve blend is (it changes) and ask your B&M to order some if they don't stock it.

Now, I don't hate VAs, I just really love burley. But most of the VA I have tried has been good, just not good enough to be my personal favorites.

 

[Brendan]

I've only tried the following Virginia blends so far ;

Petersons Royal Yacht
Peter Stokkebye Luxury Navy Flake*
GL Pease Union Square
John Cottons Double Pressed Virginia

And Capstan "Blue" Navy Cut.

And so far for me Capstan knocks the others out of the park - been burning through a tin for two weeks straight which is unusual for me.

Going to have to try some Gawith & Hoggarth stuff when the time comes.

*Does have perique. Somewhere.

 

[jbfrady]

Hopefully I can help ease your concerns a bit. I work for C&D and buying the tobacco we use in our blends is a major part of my job as Head Blender. I think you make a valid point. It would be awful for all of us if there was no differentiation or grading to determine leaf quality or style. That would really suck. Picture going to the meat market and finding that all they have is 60/40 ground beef. No filet, no porterhouse, no ribeye, no brisket... No Prime, Choice or Select...it's all been ground together. What a nightmare that would be. But thankfully that is not the situation, either at my butcher shop or when I go shopping for tobacco for C&D. Categories and grading are really important so that the customer (manufacturer) knows what to look for and so that the supplier knows what to charge them.

We talk a lot about Red Virginia in pipe tobacco, and some in the hobby even go so far as to associate it specifically with McClelland, but really it's a color category set up in the USDA grade code for Flue Cured Tobacco which was developed back in the 1800's. "Red Virginia" simply refers to upper stalk leaves on a Virginia type tobacco plant that have ripened fully and are then cured in such a way to achieve a deep red color. Mahogany, Red, Red Orange, Orange, Lemon, and Pale leaf can all be produced from a single plant, as these each come from different parts of the plant. The bottom leaves are harvested earliest and produce a pale leaf with little flavor, thin body and virtually no nicotine. Not tobacco we would ever use in anything. Later, the leaves from the mid stalk are harvested, and these produce brighter Lemon and some Orange leaf, with a high sugar content, moderate flavor and mild to moderate nicotine levels. This is what is referred to generally as Bright Virginia, and high quality leaf in this type is invaluable to creating sweet VA blends. Last, the leaves from the upper stalk are harvested, late in the life of the plant. These leaves are typically picked when they are ripe to overripe, and can be used to produce Orange, Red Orange, Red or Mahogany leaf depending on variable factors such as weather, soil conditions, and how long the leaves are left to mature on the stalk. The curing methods used by the farmer post harvest, play a role in color development, as well. These upper stalk leaves have a deep flavor, pronounced strength and more moderate sugar. This is not a style in much danger of disappearing, as it is in high demand with manufacturers of all kinds of tobacco products, and not just for pipe tobacco. Red Virginia is not unique to any particular farm, and lots of it is produced every year.

All US tobacco is meticulously sorted and graded by stalk position, color, maturity, consistency and crop year prior to sale. This has been the case for well over 100 years. This sorting and grading process is integral to how tobacco is brought to market, because the grade is what determines price. Manufacturers will have different needs for the leaf they purchase, depending on what they are making, but sourcing tobacco from particular growing regions, with particular color ranges, nicotine or sugar levels etc., is pretty baked into the process of purchasing tobacco. Focusing in on tobacco from a particular farm can be tricky, but is certainly possible. We have secured several single farm crops over the years, but it's not really the kind of thing you can easily plan for. One farm may shine in a particular style this year, but next year their crop may suffer or may shine but in a different style. Farming is, in part, an exercise in gambling on the weather with borrowed money. Especially for crops with decidedly coastal growing regions such as Virginia tobacco. For that reason alone, regional consolidation combined with meticulous grading of crops is very beneficial to the manufacturer. Can you imagine anyone visiting 1,000 farms every year to see who has the best crop of 'X" ? I would never get any blending done!

We have only one strictly farm-direct tobacco that we source: Perique grown and processed in St. James Parish, LA by the Roussell family at 31 Farms. Also a weather battered area and a risky crop each year, but Perique is so niche, so rare and so difficult to produce, that the only way to ensure the quality, consistency, and volumes we need was to form an exclusive partnership with a highly skilled boutique farm operation. For Virginia leaf, the total crop last year was 280 million pounds. Much more accessible.

At C&D, we are very selective about our tobacco, regardless of style, and I personally choose all of the tobaccos that we blend with after careful evaluation and smoke comparisons against previous grades in that style. Quality and Consistency are the goal when I am selecting leaf. We have some very old stock of tobacco that has aged and mellowed beautifully and have prized characteristics, but we also purchase plenty of the high quality leaf we use from currently produced crops. Red Virginia in our storage currently ranges from crop 2003 to 2022,, and we will be picking up more from this style and others in the coming harvest for 2023. The crop this year looks very promising and the darker upper stalk primings will be coming to market in the next few weeks.

Others in this thread including @sablebrush52 have listed Yorktown, Opening Night or GL Pease Union Square among their favorite VA blends, which, of course, I am happy to see! These three blends are all currently produced with NC grown Red Virginia leaf from the 2017 and 2019 crop. Carolina Red Flake 2022 was made with Red Virginia leaf from the 2020 crop and has turned out to be one of our most popular iterations of that blend to date.

McClelland closed their doors in 2018. I won't say finding high quality leaf has gotten any easier since then, and perhaps some years it's harder, but speaking from experience, there is definitely good tobacco available for discerning manufacturers to use.

Perhaps this is a newbie idea, but if those earliest leaves are so devoid of nicotine and not widely used, they're likely impossibly inexpensive. Could they be fire-cured or aroma-tized to resemble other taste profile while halting some of the nicotine invasion for those of us who may not have the stoutest tolerance? A condiment's accompanying condiment.

In the culinary sphere I've adopted that Bourdain approach of gravitating to the vegetables or cuts that go overlooked and by default devalued. I didn't know if perhaps the same could be applied here.

 

[RudyG]

I am still trying to learn how to appreciate Virginias and started with Christmas Cheer which I like the best so far.

 

[SBC]

I am still trying to learn how to appreciate Virginias and started with Christmas Cheer which I like the best so far.

Yikes, expensive and decreasingly available tastes!

The closest thing to McC Reds readily available and affordable today, IMO, is 2022 Kringle Flake.

 

[pantsBoots]

Yikes, expensive and decreasingly available tastes!

The closest thing to McC Reds readily available and affordable today, IMO, is 2022 Kringle Flake.

Except that one is loaded with Perique.

 

[SBC]

Except that one is loaded with Perique.

Yes, it's most like McC 2015 ... I wasn't even thinking of that because, to me, perique only enhances Red VA, and hardly even seems like a separate note to my palate. But sure if you like the VA but not the perique, then the Kringle is not for you.

 

[pantsBoots]

Yes, it's most like McC 2015 ... I wasn't even thinking of that because, to me, perique only enhances Red VA, and hardly even seems like a separate note to my palate. But sure if you like the VA but not the perique, then the Kringle is not for you.

I like Perique, but I can taste it quite easily and usually can smell it in the tin. For example, I taste the Perique here and there in Orlik Golden Sliced, and there is almost none in there.

Straight Virginias taste like straight Virginias to me.

 

[orvet]

My go to Virginia tobacco has been Capstan blue flake since the 1980s. When it became unavailable in the US I stopped smoking. Now that it's available again, I have been smoking it, but have found many other Virginia flakes that I also enjoy. Wessex gold slice, Charatan Flake and Fribourg & Treyer Special Brown Flake are also excellent, to my palate. Dan Tobacco's Patriot flake is also quite nice, also their Mallard flake with perique is very good.
Sillems Councilor 1695 is nice, but not something I will likely cellar.
I also tried GL Pease's Telegraph Hill, but it seems to have a fruity top note to it that I was not too fond of. Other than that, it wasn't bad.

I have some other Virginia flakes I will be trying, as soon as I smoke up some of these that I have open. On my to try lists are Wessex Brown Virginia flake, Fribourg & Treyer Vintage and Cringle flake, 2022, which also has perique.