Experiences with Whole Leaf Burley/Air-Cured Tobaccos?

[makhorkasmoker]

Hi all.

My main smoke is C&D's Dark Burley, usually with a pinch of their white burley. I love this stuff, and I'd like to explore more the world of strong, relatively untamed, pure burleys.

But when I look at the offerings of the mainstream pipe tobacco sellers, I don't see many alternatives in this genre. There is of course Five Brothers, but for whatever reason, I don't like Five Brothers nearly so much. Most of the other straight burleys I see are toasted, or topped, or softened with a bit of Virginia. I like these too now and then, but I'd really like to explore more strong, straight burleys.

Which takes me to the offerings of Whole Leaf. Before I make an order of pounds of whole leaf burley, can any of you tell me about your experiences?

Whole Leaf also has something called "Dark Air Cured." My understanding is that this is not dark fired but air-cured leaf--Burley--but it isn't called burley. Have any of you tried this?

I do lurk over on the Fair Trade Tobacco Forums. I'll probably join and ask there. But I'd love input from you all if you have any.

Thanks!

 

[CoffeeAndBourbon]

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[cosmicfolklore]

I don't have any experience with "buying" whole leaf, but some of the Virginias from the cigarette industry will know your socks off with the nicotine levels. Check out the African and Dark Virginia varietals. Those will have more strength than most burleys.

But as far as commercial offerings, have you checked out the C&D Burley Flakes? I love them. And, Pegasus and Kelly's Coin are some awesome burley burleys. Kelly's Coin is actually a lot smoother than I expected and has become one of my favorites.

 

[mso489]

Not whole leaf at all, but about ten years ago, I think it was the online tobacconist Cup'O'Joe who offered air cured Indonesian burley called Tambolaka sold in bulk, in baggies. Tambolaka was a good rich burley experience. It could be overbearing, but if you took it slow (after a big meal and while well-hydrated, the smoker not the leaf...) it was quite pleasant to me.

You might also like Tabac-Manil Semois, the Belgium variant, in medium or thick cut, or C&D Burley #1.

Whole leaf sounds like some work to cut and prep, but it could be quite good. i associate pipe smoking with relaxation, so i probably wouldn't go that route.

 

[Ahi Ka]

Dark air cured is not like burley, in that it’s flavour profile is different. It is however an alkaline leaf and can be used in a similar manner as perique.

i grow a dark air cured variety and the closest commercial comparison is the filler used in GH brown ropes. Not quite the same, but enough to get the flavour profile. I’m not sure what variety is used to source The dark air cured from WLT, but from memory it is different. I did enjoy blending it with WLT Virginia and/or burley though.

i have some dfk from both WLT and leaf only which was incredibly strong - both flavour wise and nicotine - when I purchased it 2 years ago. It has mellowed nicely.

I’d say that the C&D dark burley is probably the closest to the WLT stuff. And if I’m not mistaken, they both get their leaf from the same suppliers. The WLT stuff is a bit rougher, and maybe a bit more cigar tasting, but this could be due to less age and processing. I’ve found that stoving/cavendish-esque processing the leaf and then pressing it transforms it into something I associate more with pipe tobacco. Or just storing it for a few years.

another good whole leaf outfit is totalleafsupply. I would encourage support for WLT in the first place as they run the FTT forums, but it’s important to see what’s out there.

 

[makhorkasmoker]

Thanks so much to you all.

CoffeeAndBourbon, yes, I've been looking there. I like it that it's possible to buy smaller samples. I've read some so so reviews of it. I have no idea if that reflects a reality.

Cosmic, I could like those Virginias, I don't know, but generally on a chemical level me and Virginia don't get along. I have smoked virginia that didn't bother me but it's fairly rare. So I am wary.

The C&D burley flakes are definitely on my to-try list. That said I have smoked a good bit of Big n' Burley and Old Joe and ... I can remember the others. My general feeling in the end was that I wanted them to leave the perique and other tobaccos out, which is how I wound up smoking C&D dark with a pinch of white. But I am gonna try those flakes and the Kelly coin too. Thank you.

mso489, yes, Tabac-Manil Semois is on my list. I've been wanting to try it ever since I read that Times article about it. The Tambolaka sounds a bit scary. Thank you for the reminder.

Ahi Ka, I had no idea about the dark air cured. Thanks for that. And thanks for for the info on the sourcing. You're making me think that I might go to a lot of work to wind up with an inferior version of what I have in the C&D dark burley. I will check out the other site you mention.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Tge Dark and African (Imperial) Virginias are not actually Virginias in the sense we know them as. They are more along the burley lines with taste and process. I don’t even think that they are flue cured, some are fire cured but I suspect (an educated guess) that some are air cured also.
Look for fire cured in the GH&co line up (that isn’t listed specifically as Kentucky fire cured).

 

[Ahi Ka]

Inferior yes, if infact the c&d dark burley suits your palette perfectly. But not in the sense that playing with whole leaf can give one a better understanding of tobacco as a plant and less as a commodity.

I just looked at WLT, and saw they also have burley red tips and Maryland in stock. Both of these, alongside their burley and dark air cured would be worth trying as they would give you a broader spectrum of the unprocessed flavours available from leaf.

it’s also worth mentioning that with most of the whole leaf, orientals, perique and threshed products, unless you are going to press as a plug stacked in the same direction, you will lose roughly 30% of the advertised weight once you remove the stem.

 

[Ahi Ka]

Edit: was supposed to say “except orientals, perique and threshed products”. Sorry for any confusion

 

[makhorkasmoker]

Inferior yes, if infact the c&d dark burley suits your palette perfectly. But not in the sense that playing with whole leaf can give one a better understanding of tobacco as a plant and less as a commodity.

I just looked at WLT, and saw they also have burley red tips and Maryland in stock. Both of these, alongside their burley and dark air cured would be worth trying as they would give you a broader spectrum of the unprocessed flavours available from leaf.

it’s also worth mentioning that with most of the whole leaf, orientals, perique and threshed products, unless you are going to press as a plug stacked in the same direction, you will lose roughly 30% of the advertised weight once you remove the stem.

I am very much into learning more about the plant and the process. In fact I got into pipe smoking because I am a gardener and I just started fooling around years ago with N. rustica--attempting to grow and cure it as the Native Americans did. I wound up enjoying it quite a lot (smoked in VERY small pipes). I know that rustica is an easy plant compared to tabacum. What's more I live in Florida where I suspect the climate might make air curing difficult. But I do consider ordering from Whole Leaf or similar as a step in the direction of maybe trying to grow some burley or air cured tobacco some day--and I'd really like to try some of the heirloom varieties.

The Maryland is interesting. I've heard about it but I know little except what the site descriptions say.

Oh, and another reason why I'm interested in trying the Whole Leaf--and maybe eventually growing some--is that I love birdseyes, so I could keep 'em when I want them. But I know what you're saying about the weight.

Thanks again! You've been a great help.

 

[makhorkasmoker]

Tge Dark and African (Imperial) Virginias are not actually Virginias in the sense we know them as. They are more along the burley lines with taste and process. I don’t even think that they are flue cured, some are fire cured but I suspect (an educated guess) that some are air cured also.
Look for fire cured in the GH&co line up (that isn’t listed specifically as Kentucky fire cured).

I think I have a little experience with them. I smoke dark birdseye from time to time. That's the type of virginia you're talking about? And I've have a little Coniston cut plug that I smoke sometimes when I'm in a weird enough mood. I should try one that's not fired or scented. Thank you.

 

[Ahi Ka]

I only really remove the large bottom section of the stem, there is still plenty of ribs in the leaf for birds eyes.

I love burley. It helps me feel connected with the land. Before the import ban to NZ I had cellared a fair stash of it as I knew I would never want to run out. Since starting to grow my own, I either sold as consignment or given away my entire burley stash. You can’t beat homegrown stuff - I’m not comparing it necessarily to commercial, but for me, the subjective experience of smoking it is more rewarding and thereby preferable.

there would be plenty of tips over at FTT for working a grow and harvest around your climate. Even priming the leaf and box pile colour curing before putting into a longer kiln run might be an option