Eureka! No more bite!

[andystewart]

I love flakes. I have to grab most of my daily smokes on the move - flakes are easy to transport, easy and quick to use, unmessy, and come in a variety of great blends that taste really good. What's not to like? Tongue bite, that's what.
I shared in a recent thread that I struggle with tongue bite with flakes and that got me thinking. Others don't seem to have this issue, so what was I doing wrong? Most of the time I used flakes my bowl ended up extremely hot and that heat overcooked the sugars in the tobacco, producing acid that bit me hard. I tried different packing methods, cadences, and pipes but no joy. Then I realised! I frequently smoke outdoors and I'd got into the habit of applying a lot of flame on the false and especially true lights. All of my efforts to avoid the acid through different packing and smoking techniques failed because I was falling at the first hurdle; I was not lighting the tobacco so much as incinerating it. The bowl is supposed to smoulder, not rage.
I've toned down the intensity of my lighting and now I enjoy my flakes again, with a totally different smoking experience. I had wondered where the depth of taste had gone in flakes like PS LNF, LTF, LBF, Dunhill DNR, and MacBaren ODF. I expected ODF to bite - MacBarens are known for it - but all of these were killing me and were flat. Now they taste superb and I get cool, pleasurable smokes rather than a lot of pain for relatively little gain. Fantastic! Can't wait to try the 'new' method with my non-flake blends to rediscover some of those, as well.
Bleeding obvious I know, but will hopefully help others with the same issue.
Andy

 

[woodsroad]

heat overcooked the sugars in the tobacco, producing acid that bit me hard

Tobacco is alkaline, not acid. Direct opposites.

Chances are it is hot, moist air that bit you.
http://tobaccodocuments.org/product_design/3223.pdf

 

[mso489]

andystewart, good advice! I'm enjoying flake, PS Luxury Navy Flake, and plug, Triple Play, and this

advice is helpful. I try to rub out the tobacco enough so I don't have to torch it to light it, and that

seems to help, though the flake does burn hot, but doesn't seem to bite so much. On the plus side,

I get lots of flavor and a surprisingly long smoke out of relatively small pipes. There seems to be

less bite than with many aromatics.

 

[claypipesarchaeologist]

Woodsroad, I love how you're always posting published information to back up what you say. You seem to have a gift for digging up obscure, but relevant and often hilarious, sources. Bravo :clap:

 

[woodsroad]

Ha!

It's my journalism career trying to resurrect itself. Never make a statement without at least one confirmed source. Bring more, and more interesting stuff to the story than the reader expects.

 

[rmbittner]

Andy:
Glad you found an approach that works for you now!
To he honest, I've found flakes to be the least likely of all blends to bite. But, then, I don't think I've ever encountered a tobacco that bit once I stopped buying drugstore aromatics. (And that was about six months into my 34-year pipe journey.)
Bob

 

[andystewart]

Thanks woodsroad - I bow to your superior knowledge.
In my own defence, however, I cite congential idiocy and my own confirmed source; the statement by the Product Manager at Mac Baren, Per Georg Jenson, in this VT from smokingpipes.com and carried on this very site (http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/pipe-manufacturer-retailer-spotlight/mac-baren-tobacco-factory-tour-part-2/) that when the sugars in tobacco burn too hot, "they turn into acid".
Andy

 

[woodsroad]

This is true, however...Sugar is neutral. Burnt sugar has a pH of 2.6 - 4.0. That puts it between slightly less acidic than vinegar (2.2) to the pH of an apple.
Keep in mind that the tobacco smoke is still alkaline, so I'm guessing that the combination is still alkaline. Just how alkaline, I don't know, but these guys do: pH Of Tobacco Smoke
So, I don't think that it is the acid in burning sugar that is the culprit.
Kewl Chart

 

[andystewart]

Thanks Bob.
LOL woodsroad I can't argue as I don't know. I think your point re the hot, moist air is definitely right. Whatever it is that's changed with the lighting technique, it works!
Andy

 

[woodsroad]

Yup, less hot, steamy smoke is always good. Your point about pH, though, brings up interesting questions that will lead me to further reading.....

 

[escioe]

People who would know seem to think that tongue bite is basically an over-alkaline smoke, rather than heat or steam. I've read that the smokestream is pretty tough to get above 110 degrees, which isn't hot enough to singe, or even close.
I'm glad you figured it out. It's such a tough balance, figuring how heavy to go with the lighting. I find that the more time I spend lighting correctly, which for me means two false lights and then a true, the less time I spend relighting later on, and the more even burn I get overall.

 

[woodsroad]

I'm doubting the alkaline tongue-bite story, too. Tobacco smoke (Bright Virginia) is reported to be in the 5.6 to 6.3 range. That puts it smack-dab in the range of acorn squash.
Here's a full version of that pH study, if anyone is game to dissect it: The pH of Tobacco

 

[clarkj734]

I will say this....I don't know a damn thing about Alkaline, Ph levels, etc.
What I do know is that 95% of what I smoke are flakes and have been for a long time. I also know that if I thoroughly dry my flake and either Fold-and-Stuff or Cube it....I get a slow smoldering, cool smoke that is extremely flavorfull and never bites. I prefer smaller to medium chambered pipes and in most cases 1 flake = 1 bowl if folded and stuffed. This consistently gives me a roughly 45 - 60 minute smoke that is cool, flavorful and biteless.
I'm sure that there is "science" behind it...but what that is I don't know and don't really care.
James

 

[woodsroad]

"but what that is I don't know and don't really care. "

Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it!

 

[loneredtree]

Thanks for the reference Woodsroad. That is the type of info that I was looking for.

The acidic PH of Virginia makes it a low vitamin N hit for me and why I have found these to be my favorite.
:worship:

 

[woodsroad]

You are welcome, loneredtree, but I want to be clear:

The acidic PH of Virginia

All tobacco is alkaline, not acidic.
Nicotine seems to rise with pH (more nicotine the more alkaline the tobacco), so you are correct there, but the relationship between pH and nicotine levels is not a direct correlation. Stem position plays a major role in the pH and nicotine content: The higher the stalk position, the higher the pH and nicotine level.
I don't know enough about this to go any further......

 

[captainsousie]

I'm in the camp of tongue bit and tongue burn being different animals altogether. I've experienced both and they feel different. One feels like you've taken a big mouthful of hot sauce from the first puff while the other takes a bit to build up and just feels like you've had some soup that's too hot. My uneducated guess is that the former is a matter of some kind of chemical reaction while the latter is from steam created by smoking too hot/fast.
I could make some guesses as to the reasons for bite but I will leave it to others.

 

[yaddy306]

Woodsroad, I'm having trouble finding anything in your references that says tobacco smoke is alkaline.

It all seems to suggest the pH is 5 or 6.

7 is neutral pH. Alkaline is between 7 and 14.

Help me out?

 

[lazydog]

certainly a hot topic, I am clueless and have been for almost 50 years of smoking pipes...

 

[woodsroad]

Ah, SOMEONE is paying attention, and it is not me. This is what I get for trying to polish pixels and talk tobacco at the same time.
Yaddy, you are right, and I am wrong. I was thinking 5.0 is neutral, but I should know better! I DO know better, but obviously, I do not. Brain fart. I've gone through more pH paper than rolling papers, though, I can promise you that.
That said, I have gone back and done a cursory search for info on pipe tobacco pH, and the reported results (and anecdotes) are all over the scale:
"During his Army assignment, he discovered that if you inhale tobacco through a pipe, “you really get a hit to your brain,” said Dr. Hurt, who is also a professor of medicine at Mayo Clinic College of Medicine. “The pH of pipe tobacco is 8, which means that half of the nicotine is in a freebase form. I smoked a pipe for awhile until I read an article from a Scandinavian study [that] said that cigarette smokers who switch to pipes or cigars end up smoking them like they used to smoke their cigarettes.”
to
"Pipe tobacco presents the lowest observed pHs 4.7-4.9, while nicotine content averaged around 17 mg/g."
So, I'll keep searching, but here are some rough guidelines:
-Tobaccos with more sugar (Vitginia) have a lower pH, probably acidic

-Tobaccos with less sugars (Burley) have a higher pH, probably alkaline

-Tobaccos cased with sugar, have a lower pH

-Fermented tobaccos have less sugar and a higher pH, probably alkaline.