Esports - Long Post and You May Have No Interest.

[dragonslayer]

I wanted to post this a while back and it’s a long thread that most of you will have no interest in, but it’s the future and I smoke bowls reviewing games Plus it’s something I spend a lot of time helping my son. I hope all the links work.
I watched about 10 minutes of the Olympics and found them boring, out of touch and all about commercialism. Esports right now is the biggest competitive sport in the world. Just as an example, more money is involved in gaming than football, baseball and hockey combined. How sitting on a sled or jumping down a hill is anything compared to the intensity and skills involved in tournament gaming. Most of you know and many have played World of Warcraft and other games of that type. Competitive gaming has been going on for years and the money now in the billions. Games like Starcraft and League of Legends have led the way for DOTA the newest and most competitive five-player game played.
Though a world sport with the biggest tournament being in the US (The Internationals), we are catching up to the world with our teams. This year our best “Team Liquid” took sixth place.
My son is on their skirmish team and being “looked at” by both a European and Korean team to be picked up. Making a pro team is much like any pro sport team. Major sponsors, training and living houses provided and all expenses paid to travel the world for tournaments. I played at the tournament level until about five years ago, when like most sports you get to old. My team did finish fourth in the RTS game Napoleon, and was personally ranked 14th. But that was the days before the money hit *sigh*.
I now coach my son, reviewing games and developing strategies for character drafting, item builds and shot calling (he plays quarterback). You play year round with millions in prize money. The big difference, you have to compete against a world of players not just in your country. Streams of tournament games are broadcasting live almost 24 hours a day. All with commentators and replays just like any sporting event. With all games stored and watched anytime. Just like any sport, players are traded to different teams. This usually takes place in the spring and my hopes are for him to be picked up this spring. Imagine being paid to tour the world gaming and making big money. The competitive life span of a gamer is around 4-6 years. It’s that grueling of a sport, and retired players move on to coaching positions and commentators. Being a technology sport, the broadcasting and game coverage is far better than our traditional sports. Millions watch games every day.
Two online friends of mine, Purge and Blitz formed a US team “Zephyr” and moved to Korea to compete in their countries league. This is one of the major leagues; China right now has the most tournaments where sponsors put millions into their teams. They went right for the top tournament and after 2 weeks of daily play took first place and $80k. They run multiple tournaments at a time and the next day started in the Korean nationals, this has an $8k final win but every game won is a thousand dollars. They’ll play 5-8 games a day for the next month. Here are the replays of their 3-0 best of five win to take this championship. “Bulba” who joins the commentary is a member of “Team Liquid”.
Just to try to explain a little. The first and important phase is drafting your characters plus you can ban characters for the game. There are 107 different characters to pick from all with different strengths and weaknesses against different characters. You try to pick the best combination and theirs five different positions. Then you play a game and you have to destroy the opponent’s base. If you listen, you’ll start to understand it.
Game 1 - http://www.twitch.tv/joindotared/c/3724581
Game 2- http://www.twitch.tv/joindotared/c/3724891
Game 3 - http://www.twitch.tv/joindotared/c/3725012
Though a world sport and the biggest tournament being in the US, we are catching up with our teams. This year our best “Team Liquid” took sixth place. My son is on their skirmish team and being “looked at” by both a European and Korean team to be picked up. Making a pro team is much like any team. Major sponsors, training and living house provided and all expenses paid to travel the world for tournaments. You play year round with millions in prize money. The big difference, you have to compete against a world of players not just in your country.

This is the final day of the five day of competition in Seattle, WA with the prize pool of 2.6 million with first place 1.4 million.
Pre-game color commentary and gameplay footage and analysis like any football game. This is for day 5, the finals.
http://www.twitch.tv/dota2ti/c/2734011
Here are links to the most intense grand finale that went the full five games for a 3-2 victory for “Alliance” (Russian area) and “Navi” (Swedish) teams. I know almost all of you have no interest in this at all, but it’s here now, and though we’re mostly old and don’t care, this is the future of sports.
Game 1 – http://www.twitch.tv/dota2ti/c/2735516
Game 2 – http://www.twitch.tv/dota2ti/c/2735888
Game 3 – http://www.twitch.tv/dota2ti/c/2736124
Game 4 – http://www.twitch.tv/dota2ti/c/2736290
Game 5 - http://www.twitch.tv/dota2ti/c/2736487
Its hours of play, and hard to grasp the complexity but this is what your grandkids and great grandkids will be talking about.
Craig

 

[peckinpahhombre]

Look, don't take this wrong. I like nothing more than spending a lazy ass Sunday playing Xbox, eating junk food, and drinking beer, but I wouldn't call it a sport. I also have this rule of thumb that if you can smoke or drink beer while you're doing it, then it just isn't a "sport", lol.

 

[jgriff]

Peck - Well, you just threw Golf & Baseball to the curb as well under that definition. Actually, I had a roommate in college who smoked while running marathons.

 

[taerin]

I've always loved E-Sports and real life extreme sports: mountain biking and white water kayaking! My Esport of choice used to be Bloodline Champions because it was all skill based, virtually no items to speak of. Now I play HearthStone by Blizzard, which is like Magic The Gathering and I love online and offline Poker games, especially Texas Hold'em. Strategy games I feel are a lot better for the aging players as it's not "twitch" based. I am very susceptible to carpal tunnel so I had to give up fps based games and I never had any hand-eye coordination to speak of... My role in E-Sports though is competitive, however I have no dreams of getting snagged by a pro-team because I don't have the time to become that good, I just play for fun and for the fiery competitive spirit that burns within me. I do give my real life sports training preference, however during the winter it's mostly E-Sports for me

 

[philobeddoe]

I can't tell if you guys are E-kidding or E-serious! Were you comparing the skills of an Olympic athlete with the skill set of a gamer?

 

[warren]

If a console maker, game manufacturer, or other entity pays the IOC sufficient money they will be allowed to use the rings and other copy righted material for their games.
There was a time when Olympic sports had to relate to skills required by the armies. Running, javelin,epee, etc. all had a direct connection with fighting. Then, as the community of Olympic members grew and sportsmanship ebbed and nationalism grew so did the money. (Isn't it always about the money?) More sports were added, and others subtracted. Sports that drew crowds and were easily televised (God alone only knows how hockey survived. The US is finally catching on after learning from the Canadians how to televise a hockey game) were added. Many of the sports involved judging, much as performance art or beauty pageants. Judges are of course open to graft and manipulation much easier than referees and the like, although it happens. I have my doubt as to there ever having been a cleanly judged figure skating competition.
Hosting the Olympics creates room for graft in a big way. Starting with the buying off of the Olympice committee which selection the location for the Games through blatant payoffs, expensive gifts, free grand hotel stays, etc. Members of the local and national government line up for the their handouts from builders of venues, land owners, unions and local boosters.
So, in my opinion, if the Olympic Games discovers a way to make big bucks with console and computer games. Well, you know my my opinion . . . It's always about the money.
The highfaluting ideals of the earlier (prior two WWIIish) are long gone. We have performance art, made for TV events, etc. I am not disparaging the athletes. Some of these activities require great conditioning, training, and athletic skill. Citius, Altius, Fortius has pretty much been replaced by money, perks, luxury.

 

[dragonslayer]

Lols Peck. Console gaming, online poker even playing a little “shoot ‘em up” online with random people is a major pastime for people of all ages. This is about what’s happened in just the last few years. The rate of growth is staggering in this bracket of gaming. A few things I forgot to mention.
These games are free and free to play, that coupled with the challenge and sheer fun of learning to play at even beginning levels. MOBA gaming (multiplayer online battle arena) is taking over for that reason and the fun of playing and learning with other players. Did I mention it’s free! Growing from a million players, to over 50 million in a few years.
You don’t need a high-end computer to play, a cable Internet connection is a given. You just download the game, they have tutorials to help you out and free schools, you join in games and teachers tell you what you’re doing right and wrong. The system matches up players who are at the same level or you can make a team of friends and challenge random teams of the same level. In the game itself you can join any game in the world live as a spectator, some games having 1000’s of spectators watching. All games played are stored if you want to watch them with an array of filters to find what you’re looking for. Through the game, you can control how you view it. Move your vision around the map or have the computer move it to the hot spots of action. Follow a single person and even watch from his perspective and see what he’s looking at.
League of Legends is the pre-cursor game for DOTA, which is very similar and the new standard. Last year 15 million dollars of prize money was given out besides the money to have the teams, it’s already close to that this year. The biggest being the DOTA International, last year with a 2.8 million dollar prize pool, expected to hit 4 million this year. That translates into more pro teams and tournaments. League of Legends last year was the highest played game in the world with 38 million unique players per month, averaging over a million playing during a day.
All the high-tech companies are involved with Coke joining this year sponsoring a minor league for players. Championships games now played in sold out arenas where hockey and basketball are played. Through Twitch, now joined by CBS, opens it up to millions to watch live around the world and stored games of all types available. You can find the same game with commentators in a half dozen languages. Even the “shoot ‘em up” games are broadcasted. Anyone can stream it from their home. If you’re playing Call of Duty, you can stream it live to the world with everyone listening. CBS is going to start broadcasting tournaments on their TV channel.
There’s talk of showing exhibition games at the London Olympics, actually being an included sport is many years away. The money is there without question, they are just looking for ways to get younger people interested in current sports like curling and hammer throwing.
As the younger generation gets older and in higher positions anything is possible. The fact of it being a top worldwide professional sport, even closing in on soccer will make a difference. The biggest hurdle is having no central system in place. Different countries sponsor tournaments for teams living in that country, and only a few for worldwide. This is due to LAN play. LAN play is where all the players are in the same location and not playing over the Internet, milliseconds in these games makes a difference. This coupled with different companies and games is a big hurdle with so much money at stack. This is changing with events like the DOTA International tournament, with that model, a central commission will eventually form.
The big problem is that older people look at pro-gamers as lazy people sitting around gaming all day. A player trying to “get noticed” is similar to college football players, scouted by team managers and agents. He works hard studying, practicing and as that football player does everything he can to be drafted. A pro player is sponsored by big companies, live in training houses, have agents and coaches, six figure incomes, gym workouts and practicing as a team for 10 hours a day if not on a plane flying around the world to compete. This sport unlike others is year round with no breaks, the reason players only last 4-6 years.
So is this a sport? As the young get older and the older go away, we shall see…
Craig

 

[bigvan]

"Esports right now is the biggest competitive sport in the world."
I guess it all depends on how one defines "sport". I love video games myself, but I think it would be silly to call them a "sport".

 

[warren]

Just as long as E-sporters do not try to pass themselves as athletes I have no problem. The IOC makes a bundle and kids averse to fresh air or physical activity get a bit of ridicule and, possibly, recognition from the people averse to leaving their TVs unattended. Sounds like a win-win for the physically inept to me. After all it is "The Olympic Games" not "The Olympic Athletic Contests."

 

[tuold]

In Esport team games you see levels on strategy and tactics that go far beyond traditional field sports games. For that reason it is definitely a more cerebral experience than an athletic one and that's probably what turns a lot of guys off. Esports also require a huge time investment in learning the details of the games being played. Most already know the rules of gameplay of football and basketball and don't have time or inclination learn and appreciate the timely use of hundreds of special abilities in every combination with team members along with item enhancements, terrain advantages, etc..
It's a whole other world, but it's a fascinating one. My son is also a highly ranked DOTA player, BTW. He's too busy with school to be a professional player, but we spend hours watching him compete via video streaming to our TV. I have to say, it is more exciting than then watching this year's Olympics.

 

[Perique]

Hats off to Craig for encouraging his son's interests and being a supportive, involved father.

 

[philobeddoe]

I understand the argument you're trying to make, that e-sports/gaming is an actual profession for some people, not just a mere hobby. But you must truly be aware that there is a HUGE difference between sports and e-sports. Why do you think you have the numbers that you have? Because it's far easier to "play" soccer or football than to find a team and actually PLAY soccer or football. Not to mention there's a lot less pain involved. So please, don't act like we're just old fuddy-duddies for denying they are the same thing. There's a world of difference to the body between playing a sport and gaming a sport. I know. I have loved and played many a sport. And I have multiple gaming consoles because I also really enjoy gaming. As someone who has actually done both I promise you, they are NOT the same. (Also as someone who has been in casts due to sports injuries I bet we could do a random survey of Dr's and get an answer about whether e-sports are the same as actual sports.) And please, no responses about the horrors of carpal tunnel. You can get that from anything - My wife got it from too much knitting. Others (like gamers) get it from too much masturbation, aka "knitting". So I don't accept that as proof of gaming's dangers.
Now, having said that, does that take away from the legitimacy or professionalism of e-sports? Absolutely not. It is what it is. Just don't try making arguments for it being something it's not, namely equal to any actual physical sport. And e-players aren't in the same universe as Olympians. Unless they are Olympians. Olympic-athletes who are also gamers can compare themselves to gamers or what ever the hell else they want as far as I'm concerned, they've earned it.

 

[tuold]

What do Esports and athletic sports have in common?
1. Dedication to many hours of study and practice

2. Appreciation of your opponent(s)record, strategy and tactics

3. Ability to work as a team and adapt to changing circumstances on the fly

4. Both have star players and teams
Where do they differ?
1. No injuries in Esports.
Something else that I find interesting is that a higher percentage of Esports spectators are also players. I've read that about 12% of people who are basketball fans actually play basketball five times a year or more. So athletic sports, if I we can agree on that terminology, are for the most part played by very few people compared to Esport spectators. The reasons are obvious. It's a lot easier and cheaper to get people organized online than it is to find a playing field, buy all the equipment and schedule your team to meet at a given time.
But I'm not getting the message from dragonslayer's post that Esports are a replacement for athletics, and I don't think so either. What they do is allow for is a lot more people to compete in an international arena on a large or small scale. Those good enough can make a living at it for at least a few years until age either sidelines them or puts them into coaching. There's another similarity to athletic sports!
I just don't see any reason to disparage one or the other.