Electric vs. ICE cars

[canucklehead]

The power grid in most north american cities can't even handle people using more AC in a heat wave. Even 5% of people switching to EVs would totally overload most places, so any discussion of the pros/cons of EVs is futile as our infrastructure is not capable of supporting them.

 

[sablebrush52]

The power grid in most north american cities can't even handle people using more AC in a heat wave. Even 5% of people switching to EVs would totally overload most places, so any discussion of the pros/cons of EVs is futile as our infrastructure is not capable of supporting them.

Which is why increasing infrastructure to build up our power grid in aid of converting to more EV load is part of the infrastructure bill that got passed.

 

[paulfg]

Not convinced electric are actually good for the environment at all, but the green cult has all the characteristics of any other cult (political, religious - aren't they the same thing?): it is loud, self-righteous, and impervious to a civilized and intelligent discussion.

+1000

I wonder what will happen to the piles of batteries when they are no longer serviceable

 

[Alejo R.]

+1000

I wonder what will happen to the piles of batteries when they are no longer serviceable

Same thing with the hectogallons of lubricant left over from internal combustion cars.

 

[Alejo R.]

Don't know battery technology, but where there's need/incentive there's research, and where there's research there will be breakthroughs. My kids don't know a world without internet and mobile phones, yet most of us here do.

I am convinced the first world will go electric in the next 10-15 years, and soon after the rest of the world will follow by the simple fact support will drop off for ICE cars, and no more will be made. A great book I once read, the title of which eludes me right now, said that a technology reaches its absolute peak right before it's about to die. Was using the example of carriage technology right before cars were developed. Not a lot of coachbuilders around nowadays. I feel that we've likely sucked all there is to suck out of ICEs, and because I always had an interest in engineering I have looked into a lot of exotic designs and configurations, yet it seems the classic four stroke ICE and diesel just can't be beat for large-scale application. Variable transmission/injection timing, combination of turbo with superchargers, hybrids...all that stuff is great but in essence they are 100+ year technologies just made incrementally better. Talking about transmissions, as I said above I got a manual because I love driving, yet can appreciate the efficiencies gained from having no gearbox (like Teslas don't).

Diesel is in my opinion the one exception, I am actually pretty convinced diesel will last far longer, but will be restricted to professional vehicles.

No idea what's the deal with gas/hydrogen vehicles, again my gut feeling is that they should have a better future than electric, but electric are hyped right now. Every tenth car on Swiss roads is a Tesla.

Not convinced electric are actually good for the environment at all, but the green cult has all the characteristics of any other cult (political, religious - aren't they the same thing?): it is loud, self-righteous, and impervious to a civilized and intelligent discussion.

When you say cult.
Have you been forced to abandon your internal combustion engine?
Have you been assaulted for driving an 8-cylinder pick up? Have you been forced to disconnect your house from the electricity grid?
or you simply call opinions different from yours a cult?
What kind of cooptation have you suffered from this cult?
What kind of censorship have they applied?

 

[kcghost]

After reading this thread I think I'll just pull whatever I'm driving to the curb and just walk.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Don't gas cars que fire and explode too?

Usually when exposed to fire or an impact. Like a NiCad battery, EVs can appear to be undamaged and burst into flame without an outside catalyst. For the time being, gasoline powered automobile fuel systems have fuel supply shutoffs designed into the system to prevent fires in case of an impact or roll over.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

Don't gas cars que fire and explode too?

Not really.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

When seat belts were added to cars, my father was livid. When dash boards went from metal to vinyl, he laminated the drop in quality of materials. When airbags were added as well as electric windows etc he adamantly opposed these changes. Today, his beliefs about car change comes across like an idiot.

Why don't you get together and work things out with yer old man? He ain't gonna be around forever.

My dad and I disagree from time to time, but he is the best friend I've ever had. You just can't debate him.

 

[jpmcwjr]

This has gotten testy. And if that continues, thread will be shut down.

 

[karam]

When you say cult.
Have you been forced to abandon your internal combustion engine?
Have you been assaulted for driving an 8-cylinder pick up? Have you been forced to disconnect your house from the electricity grid?
or you simply call opinions different from yours a cult?
What kind of cooptation have you suffered from this cult?
What kind of censorship have they applied?

I already described what I meant by cult: self righteous, unable to hold an educated conversation because they believe that people like me who like cars are evil, dangerous, stupid etc, not shutting up about how many penies they saved this month etc and how many more they will save, evangelising their cars and hanging on every word Musk says like it's gospel. I haven't been assaulted because I drive a KIA ceed gt, neither would I berate anyone for liking their Tesla like my friend, but for my tastes that thing is the death of something I enjoy. Edit: I haven't heard of any bullying of EVs and their owners in Europe, could be a US thing. I for one haven't and wouldn't stoop to doing anything like that even if pushed.

Edit: Either way won't get into a forum war, that's beneath this particular forum, so apologies if the cult quote annoyed you, the rest of my reply is up for discussion.

 

[canucklehead]

Same thing with the hectogallons of lubricant left over from internal combustion cars.

Used automotive engine oil is an easily recyclable product with many purposes, it doesn't just get poured in a hole in the ground. With very minimal processing it is used as a fuel for diesel engines, re-used as lubricant, used as heating oil, etc.

Lithium battery recycling technology currently consists of crushing, grinding, and burning the batteries to recover the metals, which is not exactly an "environmentally friendly" procedure.

 

[anotherbob]

When seat belts were added to cars, my father was livid. When dash boards went from metal to vinyl, he laminated the drop in quality of materials. When airbags were added as well as electric windows etc he adamantly opposed these changes. Today, his beliefs about car change comes across like an idiot.

my grandmother insisted that Seat Belts would decapitate you and that more people die in car crashes because of them. I know people that still insist that airbags kill more people then slamming ones head on the dash or windshield.
Though personally I don't like electric windows. I don't think they're bad but that only one speed takes the drama out of them. Also the roll down the window hand mime doesn't work on people under a certain age. Though I do understand the difference between a personal quibble and a real problem.
Though it's funny people are afraid of change. Which is like being afeared of death, i.e. not much you can do about either might as well embrace it. I remember hearing none stop about how ICD10 was going to be an exctinction level event. We'd all lose our jobs and all the hospitals would close and no one would get paid and pretty much we'd be back in the stone age. Turns out it's actually an easier coding system to use. It might be more complicated but it actually explains its self as it goes. It's a lot easier to look at the final code and say yeah that includes all the stuff in the reports. But seriously I kept expecting to see someone have a cardiovascular event on the lead up to that. Oh and what lost those people their jobs, good ole fashioned mismanagement, nepotism, back stabbing, and buddyism (promoting people cause they're your buddy, despite the fact that anyone who'd be their buddy was clearly an idjit.).

 

[telescopes]

Why don't you get together and work things out with yer old man?

I get along fine with my dad. Unfortunately, there is no Preparation H for a%^holes such as yourself.

 

[AJL67]

Have you been forced to abandon your internal combustion engine?

Only a matter of time.

Gavin Newsom signed a law that will effectively ban the sale of gas-powered small off-road engines (SORE) — spark-ignited engines rated at or below 25 hp — many of which are used in lawn and garden equipment such as mowers, as well as logging equipment, commercial utility equipment and specialty vehicles.

 

[karam]

Only a matter of time.

Exactly! 10-15 years in my opinion until ICE are just not made into private vehicles anymore, just diesel for professional vehicles like lorries, ships etc.

That will lead slowly but surely all private vehicles to be replaced by electric, gas, hydrogen, bioethanol or whatever. I also imagine there'll be some criteria to register a car as what's called in Greece a "historical vehicle" (generally cars over 30 years old which you are not allowed to make any changes to - like listed buildings in the UK) but parts will be becoming scarser and scarser and ever more expensive, and skilled mechanics to service them will also be largely gone in 30 years from now, along with the cars' owners.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

The end game is to take cars away from the middle and lower incomes.. Almost no one in my town could afford a new car.

Ride a bus or a train.. that's what they'll tell us.

When you hear electric car, that's code for no car at all.

 

[karam]

The end game is to take cars away from the middle and lower incomes.. Almost no one in my town could afford a new car.

Ride a bus or a train.. that's what they'll tell us.

When you hear electric car, that is no code for no car at all

If you don't mind me saying, I wouldn't think there is a plan to it, just a combination of factors that do eventually lead to cars as we know them becoming a luxury indeed.

The US is not set for public transport, too big of a country, people need cars. Europe is different, I know several people in several countries without cars, they rent them for trips but don't own them.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

If you don't mind me saying, I wouldn't think there is a plan to it, just a combination of factors that do eventually lead to cars as we know them becoming a luxury indeed.

The US is not set for public transport, too big of a country, people need cars. Europe is different, I know several people in several countries without cars, they rent them for trips but don't own them.

I guess we can only wait and see what happens next.

 

[jpmcwjr]

This has gotten testy. And if that continues, thread will be shut down.

Done.