Electric Vehicles

[bayareabriar]

Right now, as far as I know, they aren't!

Many are suggesting a GPS system to record miles, but here in the US, I don't see that flying. People don't want big brother tracking where they've been. They say they will track miles but not location. There's also the problem of crossing boundaries where one state, county, etc, have differing rates. How can that be accomplished by not knowing where you've been? Perhaps they can add it to the cost at the charging stations...who knows?

I believe you’re referring to Road Tax. The upfront cost of the car is more expensive, so more sales tax and initial fees. Plus tax on electricity. They pay, but it’s in other forms. But for now, gas tax is the highest percentage of road tax, but there are more gasoline cars. So, rightfully so.

 

[3rdguy]

Have they improved battery efficiency though?

I remember Elon describing the how the Gigafactories are necessary to drive the cost of batteries down, so I guess it might be possible to make electric cars "affordable", but I'm not sold on the idea of Lithium Ion being better for the world than Gasoline.
The only place where Electric does make sense is high density urban environments where people never drive long distance and passenger car pollution is a serious topic, but for the entire car industry to move to electric is a huge problem for the other half of the general population.

The new Tesla 4680 batteries are supposed to give 16% more range and cost them half what the current ones cost to make. No one actually knows since it is just Elon talking and the battery is not made yet…

 

[3rdguy]

I was wondering how electric car owners are charged for roads & highway maintenance taxes, like gas burners pay at the pump per gallon.

Here in Iowa an EV has to pay a higher annual registration fee to make up for the road tax. A lot of people are saying it equates to more then a normal driver pays annually in gas tax but…it is what it is.

 

[ksman75]

I believe you’re referring to Road Tax. The upfront cost of the car is more expensive, so more sales tax and initial fees. Plus tax on electricity. They pay, but it’s in other forms. But for now, gas tax is the highest percentage of road tax, but there are more gasoline cars. So, rightfully so.

I pay taxes at the pump everytime I buy fuel. Unless the charging station is metered seperately, there's no way to tax the electricity used to charge EVs.

Here in Iowa an EV has to pay a higher annual registration fee to make up for the road tax. A lot of people are saying it equates to more then a normal driver pays annually in gas tax but…it is what it is.

Either way, someone is getting screwed.

 

[Mr.Mike]

Imagine south Florida being evacuated due to an impending cat-5 hurricane. Several million people stopping in just 300 miles to charge their electric cars for 45 mins to an hour apiece? I’m not fooling myself in thinking ICE cars wouldn’t create massive backups at the gas stations in Central and North Florida, but it only takes 2 mins to fill my car up with gas and continue on. Would I like to have a Tesla? Hell yeah! Would I get rid of my gas powered car to solely rely on electric? Not a chance in hell!

Never thought of that situation, def food for thought

 

[magicpiper]

Electric is the future, no doubt. Has anyone confronted the problem created by the quietness of EV's? The whole auditory warning given by gas/diesel engines is eliminated. I live on a blind curve, and rely on noise to know someone is coming, though I am also lucky enough to have some windows on a house down the street that serve as mirrors. This is particularly dangerous for pedestrians at night when the pedestrians can't be seen, and the vehicle can't be heard. EV's are a big technical and cultural change and will definitely require more adaptations than we now realize. Can you charge your EV off a regular outdoor socket, or do you have too have this rewired for the purpose?

I read once that regs were created to mandate a minimum sound level from EV’s just for that reason. The scenario put forth in the article was that a pedestrian was hit in a parking lot by an EV. The car was moving at a slow parking lot speed and virtually silent. The pedestrian walked right out I front of the moving car. EV’s ,at least, generate tire noise when at speed on the highway. If I remember correctly, EV’s have to generate a minimum level of noise when at slow speeds. Maybe I am just imagining it but I feel like a co-worker’s Tesla makes a faint, high pitched whine or hum when driving out of the parking lot. Maybe I’m crazy. Anyone else out there have first hand knowledge with this?

 

[tom12]

Interesting story from the BBC:

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57253947

I'm probably going to be one of those old codgers (in the future) who will stay with petrol for a while, one reason would be the price and another is that I was taught using manual drive (most people in the UK are) and going to an automatic seems a bit of a shame.

I suppose the vast majority of kids growing up now will be using electric cars for the majority of their lives.

 

[JOHN72]

When the planet is plagued by electric cars, the Governments, they'II will force us to buy a flying carpet..............

 

[tom12]

When the planet is plagued by electric cars, the Governments, they'II will force us to buy a flying carpet..............

Wouldn't have to force me, flying around on a carpet sounds pretty cool.

 

[Morrison Jeremiah]

I hate exhaust fumes and think there needs to be a change, but I want to cry on the leather seats of my lovely old Jaguar Mk 2 that I sadly no longer have. boo hoo.

 

[3rdguy]

I read once that regs were created to mandate a minimum sound level from EV’s just for that reason. The scenario put forth in the article was that a pedestrian was hit in a parking lot by an EV. The car was moving at a slow parking lot speed and virtually silent. The pedestrian walked right out I front of the moving car. EV’s ,at least, generate tire noise when at speed on the highway. If I remember correctly, EV’s have to generate a minimum level of noise when at slow speeds. Maybe I am just imagining it but I feel like a co-worker’s Tesla makes a faint, high pitched whine or hum when driving out of the parking lot. Maybe I’m crazy. Anyone else out there have first hand knowledge with this?

They have to make a minimum sound. More info here:

U.S. gives automakers at least six more months to meet 'quiet car' rules

U.S automakers will have another six months to meet "quiet car" regulations requiring electric and hybrid vehicles to emit alert sounds to warn pedestrians when they approach, a federal regulator said on Friday, citing the coronavirus pandemic.

www.reuters.com

 

[Zack Miller]

I was wondering how electric car owners are charged for roads & highway maintenance taxes, like gas burners pay at the pump per gallon.

This could probably be dealt with during annual inspections. The garage doing the inspecting documents the mileage on the odometer as part of the process and a mileage fee is tacked on to the registration fee.

 

[mikethompson]

Personally, I can't wait to replace our van with this

My neighbour has a Nissan Leaf and raves about it. There's a certain freedom in not having to fill up with gas every other week. I'd even consider throwing some solar panels on the roof to help charge it up.

 

[Andriko]

The thing no one talks about with EVs is that the produce so much pollution in the manufacturing of them that they essentially negate all the environmental' benefits. I have read that you need to drive an EV for 50,000 miles before it's environmental damage starts being less than a regular old car.

So making everyone buy a brand new EV instead of using second hand ICEs (and actually, making people buy brand new 'efficient' ICEs) is probably doing far more environmental damage than if they had just left everything as it was. Knowing how governments work, they will realize this in 10 years time and make us all get gas guzzling V8s again to undo all the damage they've done.

 

[DanWil84]

On road taxation: there is 0 road taxation in the Netherlands for EV'S, my '11 Ford Focus petrol car costs me 600 euros a year. Charging a EV will cost you 25 cents a kW at a public loading spot, a liter of fuel costs about 2 euros. Insurance is according sales price minus a bonus for not claiming, so a electric vehicle will always be more expensive. A decent EV with a little bit of range will set you back 40K or about 600 a month leasing including insurance and maintenance with only 10K km a year, ramping up each 5K km a year will cost you 75 to 100 extra a month. The calculation shows driving a EV for most people is not feesable, except for company car drivers which pay little taxes on it.

If I would buy a EV it wouldnt be a full EV for now, but a plugin hybrid. For trips and holidays I tow a caravan, which a EV hardly can do in a decent way. I have my eye on the new Ford Explorer with 60 km range electric (enough for us to drive to work, we can both charge over there) and still has a 3.6 v6 turbo engine to go on trips and holidays comfortably. Have to wait a few years, new they are still around 80K euros due to high import duties.

In the business I work in there are some robots that work on a diesel engine replaced with hybrid models: short distances are driven electric, longer distances on the diesel engine both powering the vehicle and charging batteries. The biggest upside is a decrease in mpg and ppl don't complain on fumes, downfall is that the technology is somewhat a lot to work with, normally electric engineers where only working on cranes, now they also have to repair other vehicles.

 

[edger]

I hope I die before I'm forced to buy one.

 

[Peter Peachfuzz]

 

[FurCoat]

The thing no one talks about with EVs is that the produce so much pollution in the manufacturing of them that they essentially negate all the environmental' benefits. I have read that you need to drive an EV for 50,000 miles before it's environmental damage starts being less than a regular old car.

So making everyone buy a brand new EV instead of using second hand ICEs (and actually, making people buy brand new 'efficient' ICEs) is probably doing far more environmental damage than if they had just left everything as it was. Knowing how governments work, they will realize this in 10 years time and make us all get gas guzzling V8s again to undo all the damage they've done.

Bingo. We just had a seminar at the Engineering firm I work at that destroyed electric cars, LEED and the sustainable energy fantacy.

 

[FurCoat]

I hope I die before I'm forced to buy one.

I hope it doesn't come to that, but I'm with you.

 

[Hillcrest]