Dunhill Pipe Tobacco - A message from STG Lane

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mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,454
Maybe the blends and brand should be sold to Lane, Cornell & Diehl or McClellands at a price within their reach, and the proceeds could be used to remodel the lobby at corporate headquarters at BAT, rather than just sacking the brand, which doesn't seem like a brilliant business decision. Thank you for this post confirming the indeterminate future of the Dunhill pipe tobaccos. I thought there might be a decisive kernel under all that corporate flapdoodle in their memo, but I should know better.
Hmmm, maybe remodeling the whole lobby would be a bit high -- maybe a piece of sculpture to adorn the lobby, supporting the arts while they're at it.

 

toobfreak

Lifer
Dec 19, 2016
1,365
7
I consider the situation more the result of an ever-decreasing quantity of testosterone in the leadership gene pool
Welcome to the feminization of the modern male. As to Dunhill tobaccos, chances are good that they will turn up again somewhere, perhaps under a different label and name, but still the same tobaccos.
Maybe the blends and brand should be sold to Lane, Cornell & Diehl or McClellands at a price within their reach
I doubt any such thing will happen until this tobacco war madness levels off and companies can assess the risks.

 

dread

Lifer
Jun 19, 2013
1,617
9
I do wonder if the recent massive increase in different types of blends that are available, at least for now, has anything to do with reducing the profitability of the brand. maybe the bottom line really isn't worth it from a business perspective.

 

casinoroyale

Lurker
Dec 1, 2016
3
0
Thanks Leonard. Hopefully someone picks up the Dunhill brands. In the meantime, looks like I picked the wrong six months to start smoking a pipe. :wink:

 

mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,454
toobfreak, yeah, maybe buying a brand and blends right now would be too far a reach for anyone. Even the six or eight longest standing Dunhill blends would be vulnerable if sold to someone else. 965 and Nightcap just going away sounds crazy, but I guess I would get used to it. This could generate quite a black market, and lots of phony products.

 

toobfreak

Lifer
Dec 19, 2016
1,365
7
looks like I picked the wrong six months to start smoking a pipe
Or maybe the BEST time. The industry needs more people out there buying pipes and tobacco, not fewer, and there is unprecedented selection and maybe good deals. Stock up.
mso, isn't that a thought of a black market on Dunhill blends? Or fake ones repackaged in used tins? I suppose anything is possible and I won't be buying any deals off of eBay or from the guy in the alley wearing a trench coat (Pssst! Buddy! Royal Yacht $5/tin?), but I think market pressures are such that with so much political weight times the number of new blends out there people are divesting their tobacco dollars on, this might just be the edge of a necessary contraction back down to what the present market can really bear.

 

jitterbugdude

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 25, 2014
993
8
And strangely enough Dunhill tobacco is not selling like hotcakes. I've checked Smoking Pipes a few times and their Dunhill blends seem to be moving rather slow.

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,713
16,272
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
The "brand" is obviously valuable... for cigarettes, not pipe blends. So, they'll keep the brand. If the price is right I'd bet the investors would sell in a minute. The right price will be predicated on the cigarettes, not the blends. Luxury cigarettes return on investment (Nat Sherman sale is a case in point). There simply are not enough of us, pipe smokers, toinduce investors to keep making the blends. The moneys are in cigarettes, a growing market, lots of demand worldwide.
Investors invest only when there is an expectation of a reasonable return on such. If Dunhill had been a small company, only making blends for pipes, showing only sufficient profit to put a car in the garage and food on the table for the owners, there would have been little interest from serious investors and the brand would have been safe, unattractive as an investment. The pipe tobacco blending business simply has too little profit to be attractive to serious (read big money) investors.
If there were good profits to be reaped... we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Not sure why a "black market" would develop simply to provide product for a relative handful of consumers. Even black marketeers consider profit to be made from illegal operations. Again, it's profit motive which drives the business, not the desires of a tiny market. Now making ersatz tins and loading them up with some Lane blend, to be sold at a premium? Might be some profit there. New smokers wouldn't know the difference, some of us would decry the fraud and few would care.
The owners of the Dunhill name will guard the name. The very idea of creating yet another Dunhill brand, which would create even more confusion than we see on this thread, would not be in the best interests of the owners. Dunhill, as a marque, has value. The blends? Not so much.

 
I am always amazed at how delusional we get when we think of pipe tobacco businesses. Do you really think anyone gets rich in this market? Ha ha. We are a demographic about the same size as crossdressers and transvestites. You could actually make about the same money making men's size 10-14 high heel pumps.
Any of you pipe tobacco moguls out there own a private jet? Go to Louisiana and look at the barn with the world's entire supply of perique. It could fit in my garage if stacked just right.
To put it in perspective... The cigarette industry, comparatively, could be called the mall, with huge sprawling parking lots, stores, multi levels, etc... The cigar industry would be the shed the tractors that mow the mall's grass is stored, and the pipe industry would be the glove compartment on one of the tractors.
Ain't no one getting rich off of pipe smokers these days. Sure, a company can make mortgage payments based on sales, but rich? profits margins? etc... You might make more money selling monkey costumes for pugs.
A company wants to wrap it up and stop making pipe tobacco? Well... they probably just got tired of beating their heads against the wall.

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,697
27,280
Carmel Valley, CA
So, does it not boil down to two major possibilities, the answer to which lies in the board room of BAT- and which will reveal itself over time:
1.) That the owner of the Dunhill name in pipe tobaccos doesn't want the association, and the blends die.

2.) That the owner, seeing the pipe tobacco division is too small to fit in their future plans, will sell off the division. (sub company)
I base this on my assumption that the line is profitable, or could be made so, but just is too small for a big ass company to care about. ROI is below their standards, but it will fit in someone else's portfolio of businesses.
We should have an answer in a year or two.

 

davidintexas

Part of the Furniture Now
Jun 4, 2013
675
210
Hey Dan. My dad has a "vintage" 1970s Saab in his backyard if you need one or two to acquire in order to "copy" the recipe. I'll let it go for a measly $50K if you need to get started on your new venture :wink:

 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
11,713
16,272
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
Think it over Dan. The removal of Dunhill blends? You soon could be rolling in money. Think of all those tens of... of... well, tens of tens of Dunhill smokers who will soon be looking for a blend or two to fill the void.
This could be the very market change you need. Personal jets all around! A villa in the Bahamas? Instead of a bunch of ones wrapped in a twenty, your pimp roll might become a few twenties wrapped in a C-note. Imagine having that to flash in front of your shareholders.
No more on-line college for the kids. With the demise of Dunhill blends and the ability to grab the major share of their customer... no more Goodwill! The company's, no doubt, liberal Christmas bonus will allow Russ to finally buy that new cap he's been coveting every time he pedals by the store on his way to work.

 

fitzy

Lifer
Nov 13, 2012
2,937
27
NY
I can tell you the Dunhill store up the street from my office keeps the pipes hidden in a cabinet so you can't even see them unless you ask someone. They also don't sell any tobacco products. It almost seems like they are embarrassed to be part of the tobacco industry.
I walk past the store every day and I never see anyone in it. Curious how well this store on Madison ave does.
This sucks. Glad I'm not hooked on royal yuck.

 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
11,754
16,018
SE PA USA
If anyone actually understands the Richemont - Dunhill - BAT connections, please explain. Richemont spun off 90% of it's 23% interest in BAT back in '08, but I don't understand what the connection is today between BAT and Richemont, if any. Richemont still controls the Dunhill TM on lux goods, but not tobacco. BAT holds the TM for tobacco.

 
Wasn't there a spell of time that you couldn't get Dunhill tobaccos, maybe not so long ago? I've seen on Nightcap and Morning Pipe look-a-like blends every now and then that these substitutes were available because of the absence of Dunhill from the market. But, it could just be that I have a bad brain.

 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,744
45,262
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Dunhill hasn't directly been involved in the making of their tobaccos for decades. Alfred Dunhill Ltd has focused on acquiring luxury goods manufacturers since the '60's and it's focus has been steadily turned away from pipes and tobaccos.
Here's a couple of links that might prove interesting:
This one has a timeline for the various Byzantine mergers, acquisitions, and divestitures.
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.smokers.pipes/2005-07/msg00312.html
This one is a bit simpler to follow, though it may offend devotees of the Murray's era product.
http://atthebackofthehill.blogspot.com/2007/07/dunhill-is-not-dunhill.html
John Loring's recounting.
http://loringpage.com/pipearticles/duntob1.htm
It all boils down to cost VS returns. At some point, management looks over its holdings and chooses to optimize its return on investment. Various entities have been trading on the Dunhill brand name for a long time. Dunhill is now just a brand name, not a family enterprise.
If you haven't smoked Dunhill tobacco made in their London plant, you haven't smoked Dunhill tobacco. Feel free to move on.

 

yaddy306

Lifer
Aug 7, 2013
1,372
504
Regina, Canada
And strangely enough Dunhill tobacco is not selling like hotcakes. I've checked Smoking Pipes a few times and their Dunhill blends seem to be moving rather slow.
It looks like seven of the top 20 tinned blends at smokingpipes.com are Dunhill, so I'm not sure how you drew your conclusion that they don't sell well.
That's not to say the line is profitable, but comparatively speaking they sell a lot of tins.

 

theloniousmonkfish

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 1, 2017
943
497
"It almost seems like they are embarrassed to be part of the tobacco industry."
This sounds like L.L. Bean. Get them to admit they ever sold pipes and tobacco.

 
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