Dunhill Is Back

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sablebrush52

Preferred Member
Jun 15, 2013
10,884
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It's interesting that the announcement specifies that STG bought the rights to the tin art and the blend names, but specifies nothing else, like the rights to the actual blends they were making for BAT. No wonder the amount was immaterial. Hopefully the blends will be a continuation of what they were blending for BAT. If not, they're another clone of a clone of a clone of a clone...
It may be a Picasso, but it was painted by Ted Picasso. Oh, sorry, we can't use the word Picasso. We'll just call it Ted.

 

workman

Preferred Member
Jan 5, 2018
1,936
762
I'm glad this is happening, tin art or not. The name Dunhill means nothing to me, but 5 of their blends are dear to me for their flavor and mouthfeel, and that is what matters.

 

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unkleyoda

Preferred Member
Aug 22, 2016
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Your mom\\\'s house
Nice! I cellared away a few of my favorites, as I could afford. But now I can pop the tins and smoke to my hearts delight. Elizabethan and Navy Rolls, I'm looking at you.

 

mikethompson

Preferred Member
Jun 26, 2016
5,444
3,190
I know that me and many other pipe smokers cut their teeth on Dunhill blends. I'm glad Nightcap will be available again, whatever they end up calling it, or whatever the tin art is.

 

madox07

Preferred Member
Dec 12, 2016
1,580
564
Is there any info on what would be an actual release date? When would we expect to see these blends available for purchase?

 

morgansteele

Member
Mar 23, 2018
276
309
It may be a Picasso, but it was painted by Ted Picasso. Oh, sorry, we can't use the word Picasso. We'll just call it Ted.
George Liberace cranked out a nice career in a similar manner. :D

 

taildraggin

Junior Member
May 25, 2019
62
0
I finished my last Light Flake tin from 2003(?) last month and it was sadly wonderful. I've never aged tins, but time obviously made it better than it was when fresh.
As a side note, I've recently gone through many different tobaccos ending a long pipe hiatus and I'm surprised at the breadth and quality. It seems that sweet tobaccos are more popular today, with 'dryer' English blends being less so. I wonder if this is due to Dunhill's capitulation and Danish domination of the market?

 

oldgeezersmoker

Preferred Member
Oct 7, 2016
1,737
1,642
Seems that the experts who pride themselves on their impeccable industry sources have scraped enough egg off their faces to retreat to a position of “the rights to the blends weren’t transferred. “. That assumes facts not in evidence,namely that BAT had any rights to what STG put in the tins in the first place. WAG, Charatan Nightcap, Royal Yacht, etc. will be here soon.

 

mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
30,051
11,073
I wonder if the Dunhill name is still under some control of the company that long ago abandoned pipes and tobacco for boutique merchandise. It may be that farming out the name to yet another "outsider" wasn't going to wash legally. The pipes have gone to the White Spot brand, which is a sort of "tell." Sable and Russ and others on here have a lot more "inside baseball" on these things than I do. But I am a sort of fan-boy for business pages, though no business man myself. I could say I was son of a business man (yeah, that's a joke, but a true fact too).

 

mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
30,051
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The Dunhill boutique merchandise is geared to that distinct fairly small urban customer base who really wants to pay more, much more, for whatever they buy, as the prerogative of being well-off (or vastly wealthy). The idea that you can buy one hell of a t-shirt at Walmart for six bucks holds zero charm, is intensely repugnant to those costumers. When they go about their business, they want the security of knowing that even their t-shirt cost $185 ... or $300. The Dunhill stores leap to their rescue and supply what they need. As does Neiman-Marcus and others.

 

sablebrush52

Preferred Member
Jun 15, 2013
10,884
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Seems that the experts who pride themselves on their impeccable industry sources have scraped enough egg off their faces to retreat to a position of “the rights to the blends weren’t transferred. “. That assumes facts not in evidence,namely that BAT had any rights to what STG put in the tins in the first place.
Actually, your statement assumes facts not in evidence, that STG owned the blends independent of BAT. Let's try something also not much in evidence here. Logic.
Let's say that STG does own the blends, in the same manner that Germain's owns the Esoterica blends. Leonard Wortzel announces 2 1/2 years ago that BAT has decided to discontinue the production and distribution of the Dunhill blends made by STG. If STG owns the blends, why simply cease production? Why not announce that the blends will continue to be made, just under a different name? They can't use assets owned by BAT, like the Dunhill name for tobaccos, or the trademarked names, but they do own the blends. They simply could have announced that they would continue to make them and call them something else. Why not do that for their loyal customers?
And I'm not saying that what's headed your way isn't exactly what what used to be headed your way when the Dunhill branded blends were in production. I sincerely hope that they are, for the sake of all who loved these blends. But nowhere does the announcement state anything about the blends themselves, only that STG bought the rights to the blend names and the labels though not the brand name, for a immaterial amount of money. It's rather odd, when it would be simple to just say they're continuing production of the blends they made for BAT, which they owned independently.
Granted, the tobacco blending industry thrives on secrecy and illusion. How many versions of 1Q are being tinned under other names? 10? 20? 30? More? John Cotton's Cherry Vanilla Bend Over made in the same grand old tradition?
Lots of facts are not in evidence.
Like I stated earlier, I hope that this does mark the return of the formerly Dunhill branded blends to those who love them, but this announcement doesn't actually have anything to do with that.
After a lifetime of negotiating, rewriting, tearing up, and signing contract, after contract, after contract on almost every show I've worked on over 42 years in "glamorous" Hollywood, I've learned to note the importance of what isn't stated as much as what is.

 

mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
30,051
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Usually the business minds behind these deals aren't the blenders (or the directors or actors in movies). The money people are playing their high stakes games of threats and bluffs, and much of the essence of the action is not written or otherwise recorded. The contracts aren't a record but a product. sable, something like that?

 

sablebrush52

Preferred Member
Jun 15, 2013
10,884
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The contracts aren't a record but a product. sable, something like that?
Contracts are a little bit of both. Last year, one company that wanted me to work on their project gave me a contract to sign, whose language in essence gave them total rights to every idea or creative property that I owned, or would ever own. If wasn't state in quite such bald faced terms, but it was clear. I refused to sign that contract and made my objections clear. Their legal department responded that such an interpretation of intent on their part was preposterous. So I suggested that they strike out the offending language, which they were reluctant to do. Then they rewrote the contract in a manner that changed nothing, and I refused to sign that.
One of their staff contacted me to ask what I wanted. I said I wanted a clear statement to the effect that the only thing they owned was the work I did for their production, with the proviso that I could later show it privately as part of my portfolio strictly for the purpose of seeking employment, something that is standard practice in my industry.
Well, they balked at that, and I suggested that they would be better off hiring someone else. They weren't keen on that so I offered to write out the terms for them, which I did. They then inserted the terms in a paraphrased manner that in effect gave them the rights to every idea I've ever had or will ever have. I refused to sign that contract as well.
They finally relented and added the clause exactly as I had written it.
This certainly had its result. In their following contracts they didn't try to hide what they were doing, but spelled out that they expected to own all rights to every idea that any employee had. At least they were no longer trying to be coy about it.
And in this instance it very well may be that STP owns the blends, to the extent that any entity can "own" a tobacco blend, but feels they're worthless without the tin art and the names to confer recognition and legitimacy and that it took this long to forge an agreement with BAT. Until they state that in simple and straightforward terms, you aren't going to know that.

 

mso489

Preferred Member
Feb 21, 2013
30,051
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'sable, I hope the tumbler was not destructive. In San Diego, I went through a few of those minor ones in the Navy cafeteria. Only two of us at different ends of the table, and the guy was glaring at me, until he realized I wasn't shoving the table around. On the subject of contracts, I have a notion of which movie corporation that could have been, but perhaps most operate that way. I have a friend whose father was a career-long movie industry lawyer, and he did handsomely. It's an industry of its own. I'm surprised the intellectual property lawyers haven't equalled out the boiler plate on these contracts, but good for you to push back hard. I'm afraid many young folks without the patience or knowhow to read the contracts, being all excited about landing a gig, sign away their lives. This relates directly to the discussion of the transfer on rights to these famous pipe tobacco blends, the same tug of war.

 

sablebrush52

Preferred Member
Jun 15, 2013
10,884
4,899
It was a significantly strong quake, but its epicenter was located well over 100 miles from where I live. Even at that distance, it was enough to set the whole building swaying around, with my monitor acting like a drunken parson. Fortunately the epicenter was in the Mohave desert, well away from any population centers. Must have scared the hell out of the rattlesnakes.
I learned long ago to read contracts very carefully. Only a fool doesn't do that.

 

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