Dunhill experts? Knowledge needed.

[bluegrassbrian]

Ok so I was in a local B&M yesterday looking for a Group 1/2 for quicker smokes when I'm at work. There were a couple in the case that looked to fit the bill so I had the man pull them out for closer inspection.

The one that immediately drew my attention was a Group 1, dark sandblasted billiard. I got it in my paws and saw that it had a white dot on the stem..like a Dunhill.

I said, "That's not a Dunhill is it?"
The owner went on to tell me that the original owner of the shop (his father in law) placed an order with Dunhill in the late 70s for some "shop pipes"(?). [I got the impression he meant it like when a shop orders pipes to rebrand with their own name.]

Hey said the minimum order was 12 dozen (144) pipes, and that all but 3 had been sold since their arrival.
This pipe does bare the white dot on the stem, and looks like similarly sized shell briars that I've seen. It feels and smokes fantastic. The price was ok for me, Dunhill or not.
Now my question is.. did Dunhill do that sort of thing? Is the story plausible?

The only stamping is "Made in London England", which to me seems more Parker-esque than Dunhill, but I'm far from an expert.
Any and all educated insight is much appreciated. ::

 

[pagan]

Id like to see where this goes, nice looking pipe

 

[ssjones]

A guess, but it would be "no". Typically pipes made by factories use the same COM stamp. Dunhill used "Made in England". My assumption would be someone put a Dunhill stem on this pipe (because the stem does look like a Dunhill).
I'm also curious as to what the other, more savy Dunhill enthusiasts think.

 

[georged]

OP, please remove the stem and take a shot of the tenon. Also, a close up of the slot would be helpful.

 

[bluegrassbrian]

More shots forthcoming, I'm out and about right now.
I also sent some pics/questions to Cupojoes. I thought the email was going to Dunhill but it was actually the CupoJoes white spot site.
I tried sending an email to the only Dunhill contact address I found, but the email was returned as undeliverable. So if anyone knows a way to contact Dunhill directly I'd love to get their take.
The pipe has definitely been sitting in the case for 30+ years. The spot where the old school price tag had been on the underside of the stem is the only place where oxidation hasn't appeared. Once I got it home and smoked a bowl the oxidation became apparent.

Regardless of any answers I get, it's a very nice pipe. I'll probably send the stem to someone to give it a good cleaning and polishing.

 

[pagan]

$10 will do it
http://www.stemandbriar.com/resotration

 

[georged]

Since you're out and about, I won't make you wait, then.
Physically, the pipe definitely looks like a legit Dunhill, and the stem looks original to the pipe in those pics. 99%.
Seeing the tenon and slot would either lock it down to 100%, or blow the case wide open (so to speak).
I've not seen a Dunnie stamped that way before, but in situations like this the nomenclature doesn't "lead," it "follows."

 

[bluegrassbrian]

In the meantime George, could you maybe post a pic or link to what a proper Dunny tenon should look like?

 

[georged]

In the meantime George, could you maybe post a pic or link to what a proper Dunny tenon should look like?

There is more than one. Looking for wrong things is more the case. And that would take a catalog.
In short, after a while, you just know 'em when you see 'em. :lol:

 

[bluegrassbrian]

Gotcha. To me it looked pretty "standard", but it fits exceptionally well. I did think the tenon was slightly longer than some.

I'll get some pics up before long.

 

[dmcmtk]

I think it's possible... A pipe from Barclay-Rex in NYC,

I got in touch with Barclay-Rex, and received this from Vincent Nastri III, grandson of the stores founder,

You have quite an excellent and rare find! Those were made by a maker of Dunhill pipes at the time, and were manufactured only once for our shop. If the stem is original, it will have a small off-white dot on the stem.

The pipemaker was leaving Dunhill and Nastri contacted him and asked if he could make a line of Dunhill-quality pipes for Barclay Rex. In order to signify this, they came up with the off-color dot. They made one run of the pipes, which sold out within a few days, and then never again, for fear of incensing Dunhill.

 

[georged]

I did think the tenon was slightly longer than some.

That's the way it should be done when the shank is small in diameter. More bearing area distributes the torque over a wider area when side loads are applied (such as dropping), which makes the shank less likely to shatter.
i. e. A snapped-off tenon can be fixed much more easily, and with a better result, than a shattered shank.

 

[doctorbob]

Boy, this is a good one. I agree that the 'overall' look is consistent with Dunhill, but I do have some niggles. I don't have the length of experience with Dunhill that many others do, but have been intensely trying to expand my knowledge.
1. The blast ends before the termination of the shank. Dunhill made it a point of pride to blast until the end of the shank as it was more difficult and indicated a higher level of skill in manufacture. My two 1923's, 1933, and 1969 Shell finishes all carry the blast to the stem, the 1950/51 does NOT and elicited a fair amount of discussion on this board for that reason.
2. The stamping space on all my Shell's is flat, and does not follow the curve of the stem. In effect all are sitters. This pipe appears to have a curved stamping area that follows the shape of the pipe, although I cannot be certain from the images.
3. The white dot on all my pipes (although varying in diameter throughout the years) is never closer than 9mm from the tenon end of the stem unless it is a saddle stem and space is limited. This dot looks too close in that regard.
4. While Dunhill may very well have made shop pipes on order, they would have been very unlikely to place a white dot on the stem on an unmarked pipe. This would have been a clear denegration of trademark value and would have exposed them to genericization of the 'white spot' trademark. Dunhill was always very business savvy and protected their trademarks rigorously.
The above is based on my own limited study of Dunhills (and none of my pipes are newer than 1969), and may very well be incorrect. I will always defer to George Dibos for final resolution on these matters.
That said, I have a house or shop pipe that I am reasonably certain was made by Parker and it carries similar 'Made in London' over 'England' stamping. Coincidentally, that pipe also takes a Dunhill inner tube perfectly.
Doc

 

[doctorbob]

Also, that is a very, very nice looking pipe!
Doc

 

[dmcmtk]

The white dot on all my pipes (although varying in diameter throughout the years) is never closer than 9mm from the tenon end of the stem unless it is a saddle stem and space is limited. This dot looks too close in that regard.

Doc, something that caught my eye also. However, I will defer to George on the stem details.

The stamping space on all my Shell's is flat, and does not follow the curve of the stem. In effect all are sitters. This pipe appears to have a curved stamping area that follows the shape of the pipe, although I cannot be certain from the images.

Also a good point.

 

[philobeddoe]

I love these threads, this is the gold!

 

[georged]

1. The blast ends before the termination of the shank. Dunhill made it a point of pride to blast until the end of the shank as it was more difficult and indicated a higher level of skill in manufacture. My two 1923's, 1933, and 1969 Shell finishes all carry the blast to the stem, the 1950/51 does NOT and elicited a fair amount of discussion on this board for that reason.

No mystery. All that Dunhill did was blast normally, level the stem/shank junction, then re-texture & re-stain by hand whatever smooth areas resulted from the leveling. The only "bug" in the process was the skill level of the workers who did it varied quite a lot.
In this case, if the pipe was part of an order destined to receive a "shop" stamp---meaning effectively a second---it would follow that time consuming hand work would be skipped.

 

[bluegrassbrian]

I too noticed the lack of blasting by the mortise hole.. my biggest point of contention.
I'll measure the distance of the dot to the tenon end when I get home. Shouldn't be more than an hour from now.

 

[georged]

Some pics to illustrate the "Dunhills were blasted to the end of the shank" thing...
Here is a shape 59 patent-era piece. Lovely, deep & balanced all-over blast, right?

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Not really. Look closer... compare the texture of the U-scooped little divots near the stem to the truly blasted texture farther up the shank. (This specimen is slightly worse than average in that regard.)

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Every sandblast Dunhill ever made used this technique. (If you can't spot it, it just means that one of the factory's better hand-texturers did that particular pipe)

 

[sablebrush52]

Sure as hell looks like a Dunhill, but Dunhill wouldn't have used their while dot on a house pipe. Maybe a faux Dunhill made by someone who worked at Dunhill? Or just a very well done fake.