Duke Street Irregulars, May I Have Your Assistance Please?

[donjgiles]

Regarding this thread with photos...
Patent Dunhill Shell
I have exchanged emails with Mr. Dibos regarding the technical aspect of this pipe and his conclusion is that this is the end of a shank mounted Vernon tenon with the end cut off.
The stem also seems made for this configuration.
But, the patent date on my pipe is only for the Shell not the tenon. I believe this pipe has similar stamping mentioned by Mr. Loring in his article Mythical WWII Pipe
So, is my pipe dated to between 1941 to 1943?

When did Dunhill stop using the Vernon tenon, 1940?
Is it possible that this pipe was put together after the bombings using available parts that would add to the strength of the pipe? My musing from my romantic history side...
Thank you for your thoughts,

Don

 

[rdavid]

Sorry that I can't help with any intelligent answers but your posts got me interested so I looked up the Vernon tenon. It does look like your pipe was equipped with one that was subsequently cut off.
Some of the pictures with the Vernon tenon intact show a small diameter black rod inserted into the tenon. Was this some sort of filter system? I have to wonder why someone would cut this off?
Fascinating nonetheless am I'm anxious to hear how this plays out.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Just to add an illustration of the Vernon tenon:

 

[rdavid]

Thanks jpm.
I've also seen pics with what looks like a rod or possibly a filter inserted in the middle between the three tangs. Was curious about that. Wondering if it's actually a filter or rather a rod designed to increase the draw?

 

[doctorbob]

The 'rod' sometimes seen in a Vernon region is the Dunhill inner tube. I have two of these pipes, and they don't smoke well without one. The prongs of the tenon make for a turbulent, gurgling mess.

 

[doctorbob]

The one of mine that came with an inner tube shows it to be a standard inner tube.

 

[rdavid]

Trying to post a pic...

 

[doctorbob]

I am also surprised that a Vernon tenon without the prongs would fit into the stem with enough friction to hold a pipe together.

 

[rdavid]

 

[donjgiles]

Here is what I have...

Don

 

[ashdigger]

Panhandler, the "rod" is an inner-tube.
Here is another example, the more common example, of the Vernon tenon. The Patent #'s are 1341418/20 & 186190/32

 

[ashdigger]

Doctorbob, my Dunhill with Vernon doesn't have the inner-tube and it smokes fantastic. It gets smoked almost every day.

 

[doctorbob]

My 1933 I'd like Ashdigger's with the tenon screwed into the stem. My 1934 has the tenon screwed into the shank. I don't think these were made for very long, I am not sure I've ever seen one made after the mid thirties.

 

[rdavid]

Ash that last pic shows the Vernon tenon coming out of the stem whereas the rest are coming from the shank...
Were these able to be reversed or was it installed like that in specific certain models and/or patent numbers?

 

[doctorbob]

Glad to hear about yours Ashdigger, both of mine are prone to gurgle, one will even drip moisture out of the stem shank junction if I'm smoking a gooper. I like inner tubes though, never smoke a pipe made for one without it.

 

[ashdigger]

Don, this is just a guess, so please forgive the statement, I wonder if your stem is a replacement. GeorgeD posted about a pipe stem he made that had the uncommon Vernon where the prongs inserted into the stem and he commented about what a PITA it was to replicate. I'm wondering if the "craftsman" that made the new stem, just decided that it was too much grief and fixed it with a hacksaw.
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/rare-vernon-dunhill-1935-re-stem

 

[doctorbob]

Ash that last pic shows the Vernon tenon coming out of the stem whereas the rest are coming from the shank...
Were these able to be reversed or was it installed like that in specific certain models and/or patent numbers?

No difference in patent number, later pipes tend to have the fitment in the shank. George Dibos once said he thought the change was due to durability concerns.
The Vernon tenon was not a success.

 

[rdavid]

OK. Thanks again doctorbob.
It looks like a well engineered system. I'm guessing it's one of those ideas that looked good on paper but failed in real life application.

 

[donjgiles]

Ash

I wonder if your stem is a replacement

No worries. I have no idea. I will say that the end of my stem seems more finished, can you see the lip around the entrance in the stem? This may sound silly, but the dot seems different on this pipe than the newer Dunhill pipes I have handled. I have no clue...

I still don't understand why there is anything Vernon on a pipe made in the 40's and why?

 

[donjgiles]

If I am not mistaken, this era pipe should have come with a horn mouthpiece.