Do you eat organic?

[aggravatedfarmer]

Whether you like GMO's or not they are allowing farmers to make higher yields than ever before. Before GMO's you'd be lucky to hit 125 bushel an acre. Last year we averaged 200 acre, and even saw 250 bushel (I'm speaking on corn). The mindset is this. We know we cannot make more land to produce crops (Personally I am against the deforestation for agriculture). So in an effort to meet demand for product GMO's are the way that we can achieve that as of now. Whether you like, dislike, or don't care, Monsanto is trying to produce better seed through manipulating the genetics in the seed. However, genetically modified is a new term to the populace, it has been in practice of animal husbandry for decades and dare I say centuries. Selecting which bull to breed a cow I will look at his Dam's (that's the mother) traits, her milk production including butterfat, also the Bull's daughters. How is this not genetically modified? I'm taking a Bull to breed certain cows based on his stronger traits where that cow is lacking.

 

[elbert]

I think one problem, Aggravated, is with the idea that a private company can "patent" DNA--a self-replicating molecule, and the blueprint for life. Improvements in seed grains used to come from publicly funded land-grant Universities for the benefit of all. Now they came from international chemical corporations for the enrichment of a few.
But this is an area of ignorance for me--hopefully others will have better contributions.

 

[wyfbane]

As to my mind the alternative is INorganic, I would have to say: Yes.
I cannot survive without it. :nana:
Smartassery aside, I think it is 90% marketing BS as well.
First world problems, man.

 

[cobguy]

My wife and I are getting into aquaponics ... fresh veggies, fruits and fish in a closed, organic system.
Dairy ... milk comes from a cow and is produced for the sole purpose of fattening a baby calf into a 400 pound cow as quickly as possible. Unless you are a baby cow ... lay off the dairy products.
Agri-business accounts for a ludicrous portion of our land and water consumption. What's hilarious is that even the "protection" agencies such as the EPA, Sierra Club, Greenpeace, etc. refuse to address this issue ... too much money being made.
If you want some hard cold data and facts about the impending impossibility of everyone having their steak and getting to eat it too, check out the documentary "Cowspiracy":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV04zyfLyN4

 

[aggravatedfarmer]

Hate to burst a bubble cobguy. Cows do not weigh up to 400 pounds. We have a number of 2500 pounders meandering around. As for cowspiracy, seen it for the first ten minutes and promptly fell asleep.

 

[cobguy]

Cows do not weigh up to 400 pounds.

I didn't say that's where they stopped growing ... just that milk was used to get them to the initial weight.
FYI ... I grew up in farm country in central IL and we still have the 120 year old farm in the family.
Also, I'm not even remotely surprised that you wouldn't watch that video ... it probably aggravates you! :nana:

 

[rhoadsie]

@cobguy Shouldn't that documentary be titled "Humanspiracy"? I find it laughable that people think vegetarianism/veganism can support our burgeoning world population especially in terms of high quality, biological value protein needed.
I agree with aldecaker that our species is proliferating beyond control, beyond the ability of our ecosystem, Earth, to sustain our existence. I am not necessarily saying that animal protein will be able to sustain the future, in fact, elbert has it correct that insect protein may be the future...regardless, organic ain't it either.

 

[jackswilling]

"Jack, why do you not eat GMO..."
I am against gene splicing, like bacteria genes spliced into corn. If, in the fullness of time, it is proven to be safe, I may change my mind. Breeding and hybridization are another matter and I don't have a problem there. To each his own, I just think we are letting the Genie out of the bottle.

 

[newbroom]

I read this article many years ago. We tend to ignore the realities of Corporate food production.

Of course, Smithfield adroitly got out from under its liability by outsourcing it to the Chinese.

 

[cobguy]

elbert has it correct that insect protein may be the future...regardless, organic ain't it either.

I agree ... my largest point here is simply that current Agri-business practices are not sustainable.

 

[northernneil]

I agree ... my largest point here is simply that current Agri-business practices are not sustainable.

Easy way to control the supply, is through demand. Unfortunately, we, as a western society, are a very wasteful bunch. Thus, demand remains high.

 

[cobguy]

Easy way to control the supply, is through demand. Unfortunately, we, as a western society, are a very wasteful bunch. Thus, demand remains high.

+111 ... I'm just as guilty as the next guy but am starting to come around.

 

[aggravatedfarmer]

@cobguy a calf should be weaned before 200 pounds. Just because there is "a farm in the family" doesn't make you an expert on the matter. Certainly a guy that grew up in "farm country" could tell the difference between a large operation and a factory operation. I think generalizing and putting all commercial farms in the same basket is where your "documentary" went wrong, or at least the first ten minutes of it. We have about 550 head, sound big? It is to a point. We have employees, milk two hundred head three times a day, do about 1,500 acres. But honestly. That's small potatoes. There are farms milking thousands of cows three times a day. Cows and Mexicans as far as the eye could see. Here is where your film needs to point out, the factory farm is unsustainable. There is a saying, five percent make fifty percent. Meaning five percent of the herds in the United States are these "mega herds" and they make fifty percent of the product. There is a push going on in the UK to keep mega dairies out of Those four countries.

 

[aggravatedfarmer]

@northernell demand is low, very low. Corn is going for $3.60 beans are around $5 and milk is $15 if you are lucky.

 

[prairiedruid]

Organic foods I've found to be in general better tasting/higher quality but more expensive and there is a large portion of the population that won't spend that extra money or never have experienced the difference to justify the added money. It costs me more to care and feed my chickens than what a dozen eggs are worth but my chicken eggs are much richer and the yolks are a vibrant orange/yellow compared to store bought. Plus there is all the free chicken "TV" I get to watch while I smoke.

 

[cobguy]

Just because there is "a farm in the family" doesn't make you an expert on the matter.

I didn't say that I was an expert ... just that I knew that 400 pounds was not the top weight.
You really are "aggravated" aren't you? Also, if you watched the whole video and took in the actual numbers instead of dismissing it as "boring" you might learn something yourself.
It's obvious that you are going to be closed-minded about this subject as it affects your livelihood ... I get that.
However, it's this impudence and resistance to even face the facts that has landed us where we are.

 

[aggravatedfarmer]

I'm an irratable scoff for sure. I didn't fall asleep because I thought it was boring, I fell asleep because that's what happens when I sit down to watch tv. I've never finished an episode of anything. But let's not talk of my nocturnal habits.
Did I make an assumption as I saw who produced it and the presenter? You bet. However I feel that his numbers that were presented early on, specifically at those who raise cattle to be favored in the argument of climate change, land usage, etcetera. Here is an interesting thought. Did you notice the mans computer? It's a Mac. Made in China. Did you know all apple products contain materials mined only in China? What about the deforestation in that country? What about the farmers in Aftica being kicked off their property in African countries when large thousand acre parcels are purchased from under them by foreign investors (mainly Chinese and Saudi's) buy the land illegally from the country to make large scale produce farms?
You are right, I am closed minded and have my mind made up all ready on the subject. I have a certain disdain for mega farms. You will never understand fully that it is very sad for me personally to see small dairies such as ours parceled out for surburbia.
You want your organic produce? I understand. But moving society into rural areas will not help. We are overpopulated, I agree.
I also like how the timing of that film to come out during the man made drought that is putting farmers out of business in California. Great timing.

 

[cobguy]

Yes sir ... you make some very fine points!
I did notice the Mac and am aware of the problems with China.
The point about Africa / Rain Forest clearing is actually in the film later on.
Man made drought? So ... millions of people abusing water has nothing to do with it?
As for myself, I'm setting up an aquaponics system to be more self-sustained. It's getting to the point where more and more people should consider this option as opposed to buying "organic" foods from stores.
FULL DISCLOSURE: I eat meat and cheese! All I'm saying is that it's high-time to look into alternatives to our current direction.
I sincerely wish we were having this conversation over a bowl instead of over the internet ... there'd be more laughter! :wink:

 

[rhoadsie]

I support aggravatedfarmer wholeheartedly because he works daily to produce food for our tables. Farmers are the ones that put food on our tables.
As for sustainability and food production, let's try and stick to science and facts. I enjoy rock and roll but when it comes to hard journalism, I avoid Rolling Stone magazine when it comes to serious topics such as agricultural practices or rape cases. One can look into the scientific literature and find reputable articles in support of environmental sustainability in animal agriculture...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25387028

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19286817

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18591660

 

[warren]

Adapt or die. It's one smart farmer who can suck it up, do the math and either change his ways to compete or, sell the dirt and find another vocation. That's a harsh assessment I know. Some believe that farming is in the blood so to speak. It'll be a tough world for those if they cannot come up with a way of surviving.
I have a certain amount of sympathy for the independent farmer even though the handwriting has been on the wall for generations. To be dislocated from one's livelihood is hard. But, the grim reality is that, unless a farmer can supply a product and make a profit, that farmer will be at the mercy of government tariffs and handouts order to survive. Tariffs are under fire and tax payers are short of patience with subsidies.
As an aside and in answer to the specious argument regarding world population: The planet is a long way from being stressed with overpopulation. There are billions of arable acres laying fallow, it's a matter of water availability. That's a problems which the engineers are solving as we speak. The earth is very thinly populated, crowded in places though.
Human's will either adapt or . . .