Defense Verdict in Parkland Massacre

[Briar Lee]

People always ask me how I can defend a guilty person, and my reply is they need a defense, that’s what I do, and I never accept a case where I’m too afraid or ashamed to be seen in public with my client.

But although I’d never defend him, the lawyers for the Parkland Massacre shooter won a huge defense verdict yesterday.

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A jury has recommended that the shooter who killed 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Nikolas Cruz, 24, pleaded guilty last year to 17 charges of premeditated murder and 17 counts of attempted murder. The question facing jurors now was whether Cruz would spend the rest of his life in prison or be sentenced to death.

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In limited circumstances I still support the death penalty. Not since Susan Smith drowned both her children and escaped execution has there been such excellent defense work, I can recall.

I suppose as much as 80 years in a cell is a terrible price to pay, but it sends a bad message to other potential school shooters, not to mention this is not my idea of justice, you know?

 

[jndyer]

I imagine one of the hard parts of being a defense attorney is representing a person who is guilty of a heinous crime. I am thankful for the men and women who take on this difficult task. Our system needs lawyers who are willing to hold prosecutors feet to the fire by forcing them to prove their case beyond is a reasonable doubt. If we allow for easy prosecution of the truly guilty we risk a system that puts the truly innocent at a sever disadvantage.

 

[telescopes]

Defense of the guilty and the unpopular is an essential work of our democracy. We must remember that John Adams defended the British soldiers in the Boston Massacre.

We are ONLY as strong as our weakest link is never more truer than in the defense of the guilty.

As a person, I am an advocate of the death penalty. As a Christian, I oppose it and I don't care to get into a debate with anyone who wants to hoot about Old Testament writings concerning it.

But, as I said, as a person, I do see a need for it.

@briarlee, a rigorous defense of the guilty doesn't require one to lie or falsify, but to question the government's supposition and require them to demonstrate without a reasonable doubt that the guilt of the accused.

I was a foreman on a jury where the guilt of the two defendants was not in contention. The intent was. The trial took a month and the two defendants were low life scum - I am not sure that was in contention either. The Jury held for a Murder One conviction. During the trial, it was evident that some of the evidence by the police were lies, the police actually did lie and perjured themselves on the stand. That also was not in contention.

I have to shake my head a bit. The DA called an officer onto the stand and asked him if the police routinely lied. The officer stated in the affirmative and defended the practice as a means of interrogation. What was clear was they lied so often they were beginning to believe their own lies. Lies that were directly contradicted by video evidence that they continued to lie about until it was played for the jury.

Regardless, I am not bashing police. They have an almost impossible job in this ridiculous time we live in. My point is the system is a hostile one and all of us benefit from the defense of everyone.

 

[tbradsim1]

I feel for the parents, clear case that justice wasn’t served, what I really want to say is not in this forum!

 

[bullet08]

I believe everyone needs defense. And I believe in our judicial system. Once 12 mem/women of his peer handed the verdict, I'll take it even if I don't agree with it. Of course, if I was in their shoes my only question would have been "original or extra crispy?"

 

[sablebrush52]

Nothing is going to bring back those children.

I have a feeling that Mr Cruz's life in prison isn't going to be a picnic.

 

[Briar Lee]

I respect the lawyers who tirelessly work for the abolition of the death penalty.
In fact, over the last hundred years or so they’ve convinced more people than those of us who still would, under limited circumstances, ceremoniously, under due process of law, and humanely execute the vilest and most evil of murderers.

The trend is against capital punishment. It’s so odious even the states that have it, spend decades working up the will to carry it out. And, few if any drug makers will sell them the drugs they need to do it.

Raised as an old time Christian (only) my views on capital punishment are mine alone. The two thieves beside our Savior remarked they deserved their punishment, but not our Savior.

As a person and a lawyer I would have swift capital punishment after a fair trail, and mandatory appeal to the state’s highest court, in the county where the trail was held, by hanging, if these conditions were met:

1. Unquestioned proof of guilt.

2. Unspeakably vile acts

3. A notorious and infamous crime

There might be a deterrent value, but I won’t argue that.

My reason is to send a message to the public and generations unborn the consequences of evil is death on the gallows.

John Morgan was hung because he killed two children and the widow Green.

What else, would have fit the end of the story?

 

[condorlover1]

Clarence Darrow quote on the Death penalty:

The time will come when all people will view with horror light way in which society and its courts of law now take human life; and when that time comes, the way will be clear to device some better method of dealing with poverty and ignorance and their frequent byproducts, which we call crime.

A true an illuminating statement if one was ever made.

 

[didimauw]

1. I will be watching this thread very closely.

Now that that's out of the way.

I am all for the death penalty. Wish it were legal in Wisconsin. If anyone has been watching the Waukesha christmas parade trial in Wisconsin, you will understand where I'm coming from. Some people don't deserve 3 hots and a cot. My daughter was in that parade and I have a 3 second video of him flying right past her in his murder weapon.

Many things I want to say, but this is not the place. I just feel for all the families mentioned here.

 

[Briar Lee]

Clarence Darrow quote on the Death penalty:

The time will come when all people will view with horror light way in which society and its courts of law now take human life; and when that time comes, the way will be clear to device some better method of dealing with poverty and ignorance and their frequent byproducts, which we call crime.

A true an illuminating statement if one was ever made.

Darrow’s defense of Leopold and Loeb is even today studied in law schools and his oratory was masterful.

Leopold and Loeb - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yet any argument against hanging a man can also be made against locking him up in a concrete cage for life.

I’d personally consider life without parole more torture than a swift death.

But few on death row agree.

 

[jndyer]

The time will come when all people will view with horror light way in which society and its courts of law now take human life; and when that time comes, the way will be clear to device some better method of dealing with poverty and ignorance and their frequent byproducts, which we call crime.

The problem with this quote, as I see it, is the assumption that poverty and ignorance are the true antecedents of crime. I believe it ignores the important aspect of human autonomy and free will. In the way that I view the world, crime is not a byproduct of poverty. Poverty and desperation may indeed make criminality look more attractive; however, the reality is that the person committing crime chooses their actions.

Please understand, these are the way I view the world. I understand and respect that others have different thoughts. I am thankful when individuals are willing to both state their beliefs, defend them and listen to others. The free market of ideas is vital to an ever evolving society.

 

[MacMarty89]

Let’s close this down, mods. I think this subject is not for this forum. It will inevitably go down the road you don’t want it to, I think. Let’s focus on pipes and the more joyful things in life.

 

[warren]

Life without parole. How many lifers are pardoned over the years? The rate of recidivism of cons put to death is pretty damned flat. Society these days has very mixed emotions with regard to killing.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Agree that this thread has little chance of not going off the rails.
Done locked 'er up.