CupoJoe’s Bought Out by Sutliff

[cigrmaster]

It looks like CupoJoes got an otter they couldn't walk away from. When I sild my last business, I wasn't lookinng to sell, but they made me a fair offer and I jumped on it

Cup has been watching this business go down and down and if someone made them a fair offer, they jumped it. The tobacco and Vap and roll your own are all going to be history as big tobacco consolidates the market. Banks too big to fail, tobacco giants that verge on monopolies. Health insurance companies that live to rob you. I am getting those bastards good this year as the one after is government health insurance.

No matter the business, the big boys always get rid of the little guys in most cases.

 

[woodsroad]

It looks like CupoJoes got an otter they couldn't walk away from. When I sild my last business, I wasn't lookinng to sell, but they made me a fair offer and I jumped on it

Cup has been watching this business go down and down and if someone made them a fair offer, they jumped it. The tobacco and Vap and roll your own are all going to be history as big tobacco consolidates the market. Banks too big to fail, tobacco giants that verge on monopolies. Health insurance companies that live to rob you. I am getting those bastards good this year as the one after is government health insurance.

No matter the business, the big boys always get rid of the little guys in most cases.

Looks like a good spot to listen to:

 

[anotherbob]

I don't think the business is bad just very different.

 

[georged]

Holy crap George! I just called to place an order and they wanted my Social Security number, a $25 co-pay, pre-authorization from my insurer, an MRI, and an executed litigation waiver providing full indemnification and a binding arbitration clause. Plus I have to overnight them blood, urine, and stool samples (luckily I produced one sample that checked all the boxes). I’m beginning to wonder if all this is worth it for a tin of Cross-Eyed Cricket.

Exactly.

When I was a kid the MRI wasn't required.

In my Grandfather's day, not even the co-pay.

 

[mingc]

Tobacco Pipes (i.e., MacBaren/Sutliiff) just ate up a competitor, Cup O' Joes. I can't see this as a positive development. It's one less real choice of vendors for us customers..

 

[georged]

It looks like CupoJoes got an otter they couldn't walk away from.

.
Yup. The giant ones are impossible to outrun, never mind walk away from. Even Godzilla behaves when they're around.

 

[snagstangl]

"Not nearly enough money to attract lawyers, greedy self-interested snakes eager to insert themselves into formerly simple transactions, form "doctor corporations" with high-powered collection departments whose first order of business after being established is hitting financial targets" So are you talking about the doctors or lawyers as the greedy self-interested snakes ?

 

[georged]

Yes

 

[sablebrush52]

That simply never happens, though. It's just a myth.

Take the health sector. A few decades ago, every doctor had his own practice---occasionally with a partner or two---and getting injured or sick was like any other situation. Like hiring a plumber, electrician, whatever. Getting some stiches in a finger or setting a broken bone cost about the same as hiring any other specialist in society.

Today, something like that costs many thousands of dollars, involves many hours of phone time and paperwork, involves deliberately obfuscated costs, four and five figure deductibles, and is by far the leading cause of bankruptcies in the USA. Annual medical billables total over two trillion dollars, in fact. Not nearly enough money to attract lawyers, greedy self-interested snakes eager to insert themselves into formerly simple transactions, form "doctor corporations" with high-powered collection departments whose first order of business after being established is hitting financial targets, or ANY of that...

"Hydra"... lol

You conspiracy theorists crack me up.

Man's nature is, and will always be, fairness, reasonableness, straight dealing, helpfulness, and aspiring to excellence in execution regardless of the area of endeavor.

In short, lovers of Cup-O-Joes as it is today (count me among them!) has nothing to worry about. Screwing things up to squeeze a few extra dollars out of such an operation is simply not how large, acquisitive companies with SWAT teams of cost accountants work.


View attachment 112695

George,

Whatever it is that you're smoking, can I have some?

Corporatisation of medicine is the inevitable result of the spiraling cost of medical malpractice insurance, the legal right to be stupid, reluctant oversight by medical certification boards, and lawsuits as a lottery ticket. These huge organizations can employ a small army of legal gorillas to drive plaintiffs into the ground.

Monopoly isn't just a board game anymore.

 

[kcghost]

You can't worked about this. Kathleen gets to keep the store and gives the rest to the holding company. As George was saying in his thread this not necessarily good for the consumer. Its rhw holding company that Joe's over. Sutliff doesn't have anything to do with them.

 

[georged]

Corporatisation of medicine is the inevitable result of the spiraling cost of medical malpractice insurance, the legal right to be stupid, reluctant oversight by medical certification boards, and lawsuits as a lottery ticket. These huge organizations can employ a small army of legal gorillas to drive plaintiffs into the ground.

Welcome to the Medical Industrial Complex in action. Hospitals, insurance companies, Big Pharma, doctors, and lawyers, all engaged in an ever-faster-spinning feedback loop of expenses and pre-emptive price raising (supposedly) against each other.

A strategy that's so effective and profitable that it's now past regulating because the only people with the legal power to stop it/limit it/control it have long since been bought off.

Which poses a quasi-philosophical question: If a criminal organization becomes so wealthy, successful, and powerful that it can control law-making---make what it does legal---does that mean it isn't a criminal organization any more?

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

Tobacco Pipes (i.e., MacBaren/Sutliiff) just ate up a competitor, Cup O' Joes. I can't see this as a positive development. It's one less real choice of vendors for us customers..

Well, yes, I guess it is one less vendor to choose from.
But on the other hand, I find it encouraging that MacBaren/Sutliff is comfortable in making further capital commitments to the pipe side of things. STG seems to be more interested in cigars, both hand rolled and machine made. Who knows, maybe the have larger plans that will be good for Pipe smokers. And, I am happy for Kathleen.

 

[Simmerdown☕️]

Welcome to the Medical Industrial Complex in action. Hospitals, insurance companies, Big Pharma, doctors, and lawyers, all engaged in an ever-faster-spinning feedback loop of expenses and pre-emptive price raising (supposedly) against each other.

A strategy that's so effective and profitable that it's now past regulating because the only people with the legal power to stop it/limit it/control it have long since been bought off.

Which poses a quasi-philosophical question: If a criminal organization becomes so wealthy, successful, and powerful that it can control law-making---make what it does legal---does that mean it isn't a criminal organization any more?

George, I thought we were talking about Kathleen’s spot being purchased by Sutliff? Worrying bout things we can’t control, especially since we haven’t experienced any of the perceived or anticipated comings, is only gonna get your blood up. Have a pipe and keep calm. ?️

 

[mingc]

Well, yes, I guess it is one less vendor to choose from.
But on the other hand, I find it encouraging that MacBaren/Sutliff is comfortable in making further capital commitments to the pipe side of things. STG seems to be more interested in cigars, both hand rolled and machine made. Who knows, maybe the have larger plans that will be good for Pipe smokers. And, I am happy for Kathleen.

MB clearly wanted a retail arm to compete with both STG and Laudisi in the US. Now they all have pipe tobacco manufacturing, distribution and retail arms.

But it's not clear to me why MB wanted to acquire COJ, when it already had TP. Does COJ have any exclusive distribution deals that MB wanted? Dunhill pipes? Or did MB just wanted to kill off a competitor?

 

[georged]

George, I thought we were talking about Kathleen’s spot being purchased by Sutliff?

Yup.

Pattern recognition and applying the discoveries that come from it is why (how) humans prevailed on this rock.

It applies to everything.

Kathleen's spot being purchased by Sutliff is part of everything.

Worrying bout things we can’t control, especially since we haven’t experienced any of the perceived or anticipated comings, is only gonna get your blood up.

You've got two things happening, there.

1 -- You can't control the weather, either, but ignoring it---not worring about it---will eventually cost you big time one way or another. From frozen pipes to being caught in a hurricane's storm surge. All manner of fun stuff. So, yeah, it's best to keep your eye on it where it overlaps your existence/happiness/etc.

2 -- While what's worrisome indeed hasn't happened yet, Human Behavior 101 strongly suggests that it will. That's why parallels are being discussed.

Have a pipe

I always do.

 

[fireground_piper]

MB clearly wanted a retail arm to compete with both STG and Laudisi in the US. Now they all have pipe tobacco manufacturing, distribution and retail arms.

But it's not clear to me why MB wanted to acquire COJ, when it already had TP. Does COJ have any exclusive distribution deals that MB wanted? Dunhill pipes? Or did MB just wanted to kill off a competitor?

They do have some of their own branded items. The anniversary blends, the yeti branded pipes and accessories, perhaps a different clientele to absorb.

 

[jguss]

I think the discussion here is conflating at least two issues. If the question is might individual customers be worse off as a result of the sale the answer is of course yes. If the question is given the owner’s choice to sell is the sale to Sutliff likely to be better for customers in the aggregate than a sale to the only other strategic buyers, P&C or SP, I believe the answer is also clearly yes. Sutliff is a new player in the retail space and needs to invest and invest quickly (ie through acquisitions vs organic growth) if it’s going to compete effectively with the other two. And I believe that the emergence of a third major competitor is better for customers than having only two today. A drive toward consolidation should be no surprise. There are competitive advantages to scale which explain relative costs and therefore pricing in hundreds of industries; online pipe tobacco sales are no different. These advantages become even more important in light of an expectation of declining demand.

The key here is the owner’s desire for an exit, over which customers almost never have any control whatsoever (exceptions, such as monopsony or oligopsony, obviously don’t apply here). Once that decision is made customers can only sit on the sidelines and hope for the best outcome within the range of what’s possible.

Almost all transactions are justified and financed on the basis of an expected ROI, and these returns are often (but not exclusively) driven by synergies. In this case these synergies would presumably be based on Sutliff’s manufacturing business and its prior acquisition of TobaccoPipes.com. The harvesting of hoped for synergies (where successful, which is much less often than the uninitiated might think; the majority of M&A transactions have a decretive impact on shareholder value) is sometimes invisible to customers and sometimes grossly apparent. Will Cup O’ Joes change, and change materially? Time will tell. But the sale is an accomplished fact and the outcome for consumers of pipe tobacco could have been worse.

I understand the desire to lament change where we’re happy with the status quo. But my economic perspective is more positive than normative. I’m less interested in what I think things should be than in what they are, and if my behavior should change accordingly. At the end of the day unhappy consumers always have the option of voting with their feet, something which companies forget at their peril.

 

[Simmerdown☕️]

Yup.

Pattern recognition and applying the discoveries that come from it is why (how) humans prevailed on this rock.

It applies to everything.

Kathleen's spot being purchased by Sutliff is part of everything.



You've got two things happening, there.

1 -- You can't control the weather, either, but ignoring it---not worring about it---will eventually cost you big time one way or another. From frozen pipes to being caught in a hurricane's storm surge. All manner of fun stuff. So, yeah, it's best to keep your eye on it where it overlaps your existence/happiness/etc.

2 -- While what's worrisome indeed hasn't happened yet, Human Behavior 101 strongly suggests that it will. That's why parallels are being discussed.




I always do.

Damn! My mind was just blown George. But, that’s not saying much considering my upbringing. Many blessings be upon you Sir. My temperance has been manufactured by a long history of worrying bout things that were out of my reach to effect change. However, it does require constant maintenance. I do wish you the very best of Seasons Greetings you encyclopedia you. ??️

 

[Casual]

I, for one, welcome our Danish overlords. I’d like to remind them that as a trusted internet comedian, I can help round up others to buy their sweet, not-bitey-at all blends.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

MB clearly wanted a retail arm to compete with both STG and Laudisi in the US. Now they all have pipe tobacco manufacturing, distribution and retail arms.

But it's not clear to me why MB wanted to acquire COJ, when it already had TP. Does COJ have any exclusive distribution deals that MB wanted? Dunhill pipes? Or did MB just wanted to kill off a competitor?

I think MB might well have wanted COJ’s eyeballs/clicks, customer list, etc. I notice their web page is still up.

Aside from acquiring etailers, there are other ways MB could increase their pipe tobacco presence in the US. Sutliff is a Primary Processor and an importer. A non-US tobacco manufacturer that isn’t satisfied with one of their brand’s existing US distributors might look favorably on having Sutliff as their importer/distributor.