Comoys Discussion

[ChuckMijo]

What’s your opinion on dating by “ Reinforced at the push”. I had a few conversations with some big collectors. The common theory was the patent was filed for a fact in 1938. However it’s stated that they did not implement it until 1940 or so. It ran for only a few years until ww2 1945 or so Then because of the metal shortage and expense it was abandoned. However there is absolutely no mention of this as a accurate way to date Comoys. As far as I know it was only on Blue Ribbon, and London Pride lines. Those also seem to to carry a letter after the number. 126b or so for instance. Does anyone know for sure through old price catalogs or such if this is a actually accurate?

 

[donjgiles]

Here is a discussion on this subject...

Account Suspended

 

[ChuckMijo]

Thanks for posting that! I read it. Seems like it was most likely used prewar for only a short time. My question is how comes nobody used this as a easy accurate way to date them? And why do those pipes seem to carry letters after shape numbers? Is there any mention in catalogs about this?

 

[donjgiles]

Thanks for posting that! I read it. Seems like it was most likely used prewar for only a short time. My question is how comes nobody used this as a easy accurate way to date them? And why do those pipes seem to carry letters after shape numbers?

On my examples, there are not letters following the shape number.
The B after shape numbers indicates a variation of shape, as far as I can tell.
Most reinforced at the push pipes in my collection are Blue Ribands, Royal Comoy's and London Prides that are pre-war or just a bit after the war. Dates seem to be 30's to 1940 (ish) also established by the Made In stamping, which is a better way to date Comoy pipes.

 

[sablebrush52]

Thanks for posting that! I read it. Seems like it was most likely used prewar for only a short time. My question is how comes nobody used this as a easy accurate way to date them? And why do those pipes seem to carry letters after shape numbers? Is there any mention in catalogs about this?

I went through my copies of various Comoys catalogs, from 1909 through 1978, and found nothing on the letters or tenon reinforcements. It was all about the briar and how it was processed, and the history of the company. Pretty pictures of St Claude as well.
As an interesting aside, Comoy recommended moistening the interior of the chamber with water before loading and firing up a new pipe. They claimed that it prevented charring of the wood before a protective layer of carbon built up. They recommended this even though they pre-carbonized the chambers. Learn something new every day.

 

[ChuckMijo]

On my 2 examples their are letters after the shape numbers. On my 126 B for instance 126 is just their shape for their pot. The letters I assumed had to do with the reinforcements. I don’t know. Here is where the water gets murky in my mind. Patent filed in 38. That’s a fact. It’s documented. However here is the leap of faith . Because no reinforce push with a made in England Com exists ,common sense dictates it wasn’t used until after 1940, that’s when made in London England Com first started. Even more murky that Com runs for almost 40 years. So theoretically they could have made the reinforced push in 1970s. It was almost tribal knowledge or a suggestion or maybe a theory about the metal being used up to the war then stopped because of shortages. And in all truthfulness it makes a lot of sense, but is it based in fact?. So I guess my only point being there is no documentation of this being fact. I hope more factual documentation/ catalogs are found on this subject. So is this fact or fiction? We hopefully will find the answer.

 

[ssjones]

I found it on a Selected Straight Grain, last year.

I

 

[ChuckMijo]

I found it on a Selected Straight Grain, last year. View attachment 59873View attachment 59874

View attachment 59872I

Well yes it is. That’s the first. What’s your thoughts? Everything maybe wrong. Lol. So you can almost date that to 38 to 40. Fantastic ! Well we just dispelled 1 myth assuming that’s the original stem.

 

[ChuckMijo]

This just occurred to me. Is not Selected a sort of 2nds line.? If so what does that say about being only on their very top of the line pipes? Or was Al pipe a prototype? Lol This is the stuff I love. The Rabbit hole continues

 

[ssjones]

Selected Straight Grain was a 2nd line, and that stem had no C. But as you can see, the matching metal reinforcement on the tenon.

 

[BROBS]

I had a Comoy Diplomat with a reinforced tenon. I always figured it was 70s/80s

 

[ChuckMijo]

My suspicions are maybe correct.

 

[sablebrush52]

I contacted Neill Archer Roan, who wrote the book on the Blue Ribands, as well as Jon Guss, who has done quite a bit of research on Comoy, to see if they could shed any light on reinforcement and this is what I remember from the conversations.
The reinforced tenon patent first appeared with the addition of the Blue Riband line in 1938, and a patent was granted in 1939. Use of the tenon reinforcement continued long after WW2.
I will get some more specific information from Jon when he finds time to pull up his research.

 

[sablebrush52]

@ChuckMijo Courtesy of Jon Guss, who sent me these items last night:

Announcement of the new Comoy's Blue Riband line of pipes from 1938:


Below are the Comoy "intersteel" patent of 1938 and the 1936 Duncan Pipes patent cited in the Comoy's patent application.

 

[jguss]

...and London Prides that are pre-war or just a bit after the war...

Minor point, but for the record I don't believe there are pre-war London Prides. The trademark filings were post-war in the UK, Canada, and the US, and the "first use" dates cited were after the war. Moreover as I recall there are no mentions of the London Pride in trade journals until after the war (although this is something I'll verify when I'm back home), whereas mentions of every other major offering in the line-up are frequent.

Announcement of the new Comoy's Blue Riband line of pipes from 1938

This was actually published in the September 1939 issue of Tobacco not 1938. So the chronology for this limited dataset is the patent was applied for on Nov 8, 1938 (after provisional specifications were left on Oct 28, 1938), the trade notice about the Blue Riband mentioning the inter-steel was published in Sept 1939, the complete specs were left at the patent office on Oct 20, 1939, and the complete specs were accepted on May 13, 1940.

Over and above this I seem to recall finding an informative trade notice from the late thirties specifically about the intersteel; if I can dig it up when I'm home I'll post it.

More broadly speaking it's my recollection (although I haven't looked at this question in years) that the intersteel was used in all the Comoy-branded models from its introduction shortly before the war until output was hampered by lack of raw material and the reallocation of labor and facilities to the production of war goods. The intersteel was also used after the war in a number of models, although how long the latter period lasted offhand I can't say.

 

[dmcmtk]

The Queen Mary's Blue Riband crossing was 4-8 August 1938. Quoting myself from 2014,

"Some more historical information, The Blue Riband is an unofficial accolade given to the passenger liner crossing the Atlantic Ocean in regular service with the record highest speed, and dates to the early 19th Century, with the Cunard White Star Liner, Queen Mary, ultimately posting 30.99 knots (57.39 km/h) in 1938.
The last vessel to hold the title was the SS United States, on her maiden voyage in 1952, the United States upped the Blue Riband to 34.51 knots (63.91 km/h). In 1958, the transatlantic airlines put jet transports into service and the days of the record breakers were numbered. Queen Mary retired in 1967, and the United States in 1969. The United States is still berthed in Philadelphia, with ongoing efforts to preserve her, and save her from the scrap yard."

 

[ChuckMijo]

Thank you everyone! Great discussion. And well a important one as well. It answered a lot of questions and posed a few new ones.. I enjoy the old history involved and being accurate. As we move farther away in time less and less information is available, forgotten, known, shared or even talked about. It’s important to have members that are like minded and sharing knowledge. It seems in my mind anyway that the current pipe community is moving more in the new artistic pipe avenue, and pulling away from the old British wood of yesteryear. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[sablebrush52]

It seems in my mind anyway that the current pipe community is moving more in the new artistic pipe avenue, and pulling away from the old British wood of yesteryear. I hope I’m wrong.

I don't care. Less competition for the good stuff.

 

[jguss]

I don't care. Less competition for the good stuff.

I wish that was true!

 

[ChuckMijo]

We are a niche inside a niche group .