I'm not 100% sure that it is off drilling from that pic, it might just be camera angle. Almost looks like if you followed a line it would have to be started from the far right of the shank. And one would have to be drunk to do that. I have a 1200 dollar Dunhill that is off alittle, does'nt make a difference in the way it smokes. But I'm no expert.
Commissioned Pipe, Expect Inclusions/Pockmarks?
- Thread starter namuna
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If you're commissioning a carver who is trying to become an artisan, then it has to be rejected. You gave exact specifications of what you wanted and the pipe falls short in appearance and quality. Knocking off money is something he should never do. The pipe should be blasted or rusticated and sold to someone else or smoked himself. Besides the things noted the stem cut is off line.
I'm sure the carver knows you're part of this community and should have never sent you the photos, or an offer to drop the price... No mercy here. Many members are carvers who are trying to move into an artisan status, so will make that pipe at a reasonable pipe knowing it will be pictured here.
Craig
I'm sure the carver knows you're part of this community and should have never sent you the photos, or an offer to drop the price... No mercy here. Many members are carvers who are trying to move into an artisan status, so will make that pipe at a reasonable pipe knowing it will be pictured here.
Craig
I've sent a pipe back before over less at the same price point. I wouldn't think of accepting that one. Just my opinion here, but that is too much wrong. If that is a second attempt I would probably move to another artisan, there are others that can take care of you with better work at the same price.
B
B
My two cents is that you should not accept it if that is an option. Maybe its the greatest pipe in the world, but it did not meet your expectations. I doubt those feelings will go away. If he can't take it back or resell it and its going to cost you some money then that might be a different story.
The toolmark turns out to be his trademark/signature stamp.
I keep going back and looking at the pits/inclusions (particularly on the bottom). I mean, I KNOW that at my price range such imperfections should be expected on the bare wood itself...BUT, once the stain is applied and then the clear-coat (or shellack, or whatever) is put on, doesn't a carver usually keep sanding and re-applying the clear/shellack until the pipe is completely smooth on the surface (even though there's the imperfections on the underlying wood)??
I know I can just say "No Thanks" and move on, but I've been waiting since early Jan for this, passed up on an opportunity from another pipemakers' site AND a straight Dublin with saddle-bit like this is just damned near impossible to find in this price range. BALLS I say!!
I keep going back and looking at the pits/inclusions (particularly on the bottom). I mean, I KNOW that at my price range such imperfections should be expected on the bare wood itself...BUT, once the stain is applied and then the clear-coat (or shellack, or whatever) is put on, doesn't a carver usually keep sanding and re-applying the clear/shellack until the pipe is completely smooth on the surface (even though there's the imperfections on the underlying wood)??
I know I can just say "No Thanks" and move on, but I've been waiting since early Jan for this, passed up on an opportunity from another pipemakers' site AND a straight Dublin with saddle-bit like this is just damned near impossible to find in this price range. BALLS I say!!
Sorry if I was unclear, I know the wood itself has the imperfections, but after several applications of clearcoat and sanding, clearcoat and sanding, repeat...Shouldn't the pipe be smooth at that point (again, even though the imperfections are on the underlying wood)??
For instance, look at the last image that dochudson attached, that shows the bottom of the pipe, I can see there's a small pit on the wood, but the surface of the pipe (where the clearcoat is) is smooth. This, to me, indicates that the carver must've gone through a few rounds of clearcoating and sanding until the topmost (again, where the clearcoat is, not the underlying wood) surface was smooth.
For instance, look at the last image that dochudson attached, that shows the bottom of the pipe, I can see there's a small pit on the wood, but the surface of the pipe (where the clearcoat is) is smooth. This, to me, indicates that the carver must've gone through a few rounds of clearcoating and sanding until the topmost (again, where the clearcoat is, not the underlying wood) surface was smooth.
I don't think it's ever going to be smooth to the touch. Many if not most carvers use wax, not a shellac or lacquer, as the finish coat. Wax, even if use to "fill" the spots will eventually melt/wear away. One of the other harder finishes might act as a fill but I doubt that the cost of this pipe is going to include the man hours to do that much polishing and repeating. Just my thoughts .....
thank you for the clarifications. I wanted to make completely sure I have the proper understanding of the process and set my expectations accordingly.
All my pipes thus far, even my cheapest Dr. Grabow that cost me only like $10, are all even and smooth (I know they must've had fills) and every picture I've seen of commissioned pipes also show the same level of smoothness so I took it for granted that is what's to be expected.
So yes, lesson learned and I'll be saying "No thank you" to the pipe (not just because of the pits, but also the off-center draft hole and botched banding). But I'm now disheartened to the whole pipe commissioning process and won't likely be going that route again.
All my pipes thus far, even my cheapest Dr. Grabow that cost me only like $10, are all even and smooth (I know they must've had fills) and every picture I've seen of commissioned pipes also show the same level of smoothness so I took it for granted that is what's to be expected.
So yes, lesson learned and I'll be saying "No thank you" to the pipe (not just because of the pits, but also the off-center draft hole and botched banding). But I'm now disheartened to the whole pipe commissioning process and won't likely be going that route again.
Most artisan makers would not release a pipe if it was not up to your original request.
You might want to consider a different artisan. Many people here have pipes from Rad Davis, Perry White, Dave Neeb, Ryan Alden, Premal Chheda to name only a few. I own pipes from all the carvers I mentioned and I am very satisfied.
Site sponsor Smoking Pipes carries many new pipes by different carvers. They also give a discount to NASPC members. If you are not yet a member you can review their website.
www.naspc.org
Don't give up. You will find a carver and a pipe you will be very happy with.
You might want to consider a different artisan. Many people here have pipes from Rad Davis, Perry White, Dave Neeb, Ryan Alden, Premal Chheda to name only a few. I own pipes from all the carvers I mentioned and I am very satisfied.
Site sponsor Smoking Pipes carries many new pipes by different carvers. They also give a discount to NASPC members. If you are not yet a member you can review their website.
www.naspc.org
Don't give up. You will find a carver and a pipe you will be very happy with.
Namuna
I feel your frustration and disappointment. As others (and I) have said, a full polished pipe without any pits is quite rare, and the price is accordingly high, at least from an recognized artisan.
If the pipe shape is rare and desirable to you, I would wonder if it is possible to have him rusticate or blast the pipe so that the imperfections disappear?
I feel your frustration and disappointment. As others (and I) have said, a full polished pipe without any pits is quite rare, and the price is accordingly high, at least from an recognized artisan.
If the pipe shape is rare and desirable to you, I would wonder if it is possible to have him rusticate or blast the pipe so that the imperfections disappear?
You get what you pay for but $150 is not a lot of money when it comes to a commissioned pipe. Personally I'd happily pay $150 for a hand-made pipe from a new carver and I've spend that much to rookie pipemakers whose work isn't this strong. If the drilling is straighter than this looks and if the stem is hand cut, I might buy this for $150.
5 or 6 years ago I bought one of Joe Nelson's first pipes that he ever sold at a pipe show (coincidentally also a Dublin). Since then he is always asking me to give it back to him so he can redrill it, refinish it or somehow try to improve on one of his earliest pieces.
The guy who made this could be the next rock star pipe maker in a few years. You never know.
5 or 6 years ago I bought one of Joe Nelson's first pipes that he ever sold at a pipe show (coincidentally also a Dublin). Since then he is always asking me to give it back to him so he can redrill it, refinish it or somehow try to improve on one of his earliest pieces.
The guy who made this could be the next rock star pipe maker in a few years. You never know.
Namuna,
Back three years ago when I had money and didn't know much about smoking a pipe, I bought a new Dunhill Amber Root Tilt Bulldog (4) through the internet. Besides a lot of money, I did not have to spend, when I opened the box I was startled to find on the upturn (left side)four little pock marks. They looked like dents to me. But you are right they are pock marks. My first reaction was to send the pipe back. Someone had messed with me personally, and sent me damaged goods. ONE OF THE BEST PIPES I EVER SMOKED I MY 3+ YRS. Before you accept the pipe, have it sent for approval and then decide by weight, finish, draw, stem work, etc., to accept or send it back. The $25 discount sounds rinky dink to me. That dark finish should show grain after some smoking. Good Luck.
Craig
Back three years ago when I had money and didn't know much about smoking a pipe, I bought a new Dunhill Amber Root Tilt Bulldog (4) through the internet. Besides a lot of money, I did not have to spend, when I opened the box I was startled to find on the upturn (left side)four little pock marks. They looked like dents to me. But you are right they are pock marks. My first reaction was to send the pipe back. Someone had messed with me personally, and sent me damaged goods. ONE OF THE BEST PIPES I EVER SMOKED I MY 3+ YRS. Before you accept the pipe, have it sent for approval and then decide by weight, finish, draw, stem work, etc., to accept or send it back. The $25 discount sounds rinky dink to me. That dark finish should show grain after some smoking. Good Luck.
Craig
Not a good experience with commissioning a pipe. I actually like the photo of the briar before the stain,
when the band presents a bright contrast. The irregularities in the briar, at that point, look okay, a little
irregularity that lends a uniqueness. But something seems to go way wrong with the finish. It looks both
over-laquered and not stained enough, and the problem with the finish seems as much with the stain and
laquer as with the briar. Some aspect of the process has not been mastered, if the photo is a fair representation.
In your place, I might have given him $125 for the unfinished pipe (if you'd known he couldn't master the
finish). But the final product looks like a disappointment. You may want to go for a few years just buying
new or estate pipes, until you encounter a pipe maker who has work to show you that convinces you he can
do a job you want, which may not be this pipe, by then.
when the band presents a bright contrast. The irregularities in the briar, at that point, look okay, a little
irregularity that lends a uniqueness. But something seems to go way wrong with the finish. It looks both
over-laquered and not stained enough, and the problem with the finish seems as much with the stain and
laquer as with the briar. Some aspect of the process has not been mastered, if the photo is a fair representation.
In your place, I might have given him $125 for the unfinished pipe (if you'd known he couldn't master the
finish). But the final product looks like a disappointment. You may want to go for a few years just buying
new or estate pipes, until you encounter a pipe maker who has work to show you that convinces you he can
do a job you want, which may not be this pipe, by then.
Maybe 5% of quality briar is near flawless - The other 95% have varying degrees of flaws- Most carvers sandblast, rusticate, or use CA or epoxy mixed with briar dust to deal with minor issues- if it has major flaws, it becomes a shop pipe. Many artisan carvers are using an extremely thin coat of high grade shellac flakes cut with alcohol to give a high gloss before buffing with white diamond compound and finally with carnauba wax.
The drilling looks OK- definitely a matter of camera angle...
My biggest concern is actually the stem- after months of having Harris beat the crap out of me because of my lousy stem cutting when I first started, I recognize some of my early faults in this stem- compared to the Dunhill, the bite zone is way too thick. Clenching would be difficult due to the lack of relief on the button. Also, the Dunhill has a wide button from front to rear- probably .25". Most American makers are cutting that to 1/10". A pipe can be butt ugly, have the draft hole a touch off center, and have more craters than the moon, but if you don't have a good draw with a comfortable bite zone, it won't be a good smoker.
I am making a poker for a friend. Initially he wanted it rusticated then changed his mind and wanted smooth. I did not care and went with it. I have briar with pits that I use for rusticated pipes. I also have briar that is clean on the outside of the block. I went through 3 "clean" blocks before giving up. 1 had pits, one had a crack in the bowl that was not visible until after drilling. The one that looked like it would have been good shifted on me on the lathe and is now garbage. I also used 3 blocks that I assumed would have pits but was hopeful it would be clean, it was'nt. I wanted to make him a pipe that was pit and fill free...thats a lot harder to do than I realised. Not really an issue though as I now have 3 pokers roughed out. So I am trailing on Zack here, the 5% of perfect wood is somewhat scarce and is why a nice flame grain pipe can cost so much $$$. It can be hard just to find a block that is pit free.
Also trailing on Zack re: the button. I am working on hand cut stems and that is another area that is detail specific. The below link gives you an idea of the thicknesses of the 3 areas of the button from various carvers.
http://www.fumeursdepipe.net/arttuyauxroan.htm
The average is 3.50mm to 4.15mm on the stem area right in front of the button. Where your teeth would go. Any thinner than 3.50 and the stem could be to thin and be a weak spot, thicker than 4.15 and you are losing some comfort. The average for a button is 6.00mm to 6.5mm with a width of 16-18mm as an average.
Also trailing on Zack re: the button. I am working on hand cut stems and that is another area that is detail specific. The below link gives you an idea of the thicknesses of the 3 areas of the button from various carvers.
http://www.fumeursdepipe.net/arttuyauxroan.htm
The average is 3.50mm to 4.15mm on the stem area right in front of the button. Where your teeth would go. Any thinner than 3.50 and the stem could be to thin and be a weak spot, thicker than 4.15 and you are losing some comfort. The average for a button is 6.00mm to 6.5mm with a width of 16-18mm as an average.
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