Clergy Pipe Smokers.

[brian64]

The Pharisees committed similar sins (adding to the law) enslaving the Jews of Christ's time.

The only times Yeshua became truly angry was at the hypocrisy of the Pharisees...and the only time He became both angry and violent was when He kicked the money changers out of the temple. When He crossed that line is when “they” decided they had to get rid of Him...prior to that they just criticized Him for hanging out with sinners.

 

[sdcowboy]

My grandfather was an Episcopal bishop. He was also a life-long pipe smoker. Many of his clergy colleagues were also pipe smokers. Many of them picked it up in seminary. I've always thought that priests and pipes were a natural combination.

 

[zonomo]

When He crossed that line is when “they” decided they had to get rid of Him...prior to that they just criticized Him for hanging out with sinners.

Actually, not to start a holy war here but that wasnt the reason they needed Him to die. It was because He claimed to be God. "I and the Father are one" John 10:30 and in John 14:9-11 He said "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father". :D

 

[brian64]

Actually, not to start a holy war here but that wasnt the reason they needed Him to die. It was because He claimed to be God. "I and the Father are one" John 10:30 and in John 14:9-11 He said "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father".

I don’t disagree, but I don’t think the two reasons are mutually exclusive. IMO, He kicked the money changers out precisely because of His divinity, and “they” did not want God muscling in on their business. Also, it seems clear that after that incident things changed rather quickly.

 

[yadan]

"The Pharisees committed similar sins (adding to the law) enslaving the Jews of Christ's time."
Not quite accurate. It was the occupying Romans, and not the P'rushim (Pharisees) who enslaved, executed, imprisoned or banished rebellious Jews. True, the P'rushim collaborated with the Romans, but they could not set policy nor were they in favor of enslavement.

As for drunkeness, there is a definite implication of it being frowned upon (such as when Hannah was admonished by Eli, the High Priest, when he thought she was drunk), but the only forbiddance concerns the priests serving in the Temple.

 

[jbbaldwin]

Oldie but goodie: Msgr. Ronald Knox, who translated the Bible into English. By himself.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

My view: it's only a sin to smoke sweet aromatics. Or at least, it should be . . .

 

[zonomo]

My view: it's only a sin to smoke sweet aromatics. Or at least, it should be .

easy.... easy does it brother..... 8O

 

[zonomo]

I don’t disagree, but I don’t think the two reasons are mutually exclusive. IMO, He kicked the money changers out precisely because of His divinity, and “they” did not want God muscling in on their business. Also, it seems clear that after that incident things changed rather quickly.

Very true. A lot of people misunderstand what happened here. The Temple only accepted "Hebrew money" because the currency at the time had the image of Roman emperor, who set himself as a god. Therefore, the worshipers could not title or send offerings in the normal business currency so exchange of currency was something necessary by Levitical law. No problem there at all. But... the money changers were ripping off the sojourners and worshipers there by charging them exorbitant fees (like most of today's banks :? ) inside the temple and "making money off God". So the Messiah had to take out a good ol fashion can of Whoop-A.

 

[cleidophoros]

My view: it's only a sin to smoke sweet aromatics. Or at least, it should be . . .

I present you "Towards a Theology of Pipesmoking"

http://flyingfarther.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/toward-a-theology-of-pipesmoking/

Chapter III-2

 

[shaintiques]

Actually the reason that Jesus turned the tables over and kicked them out of the temple is two fold, one they were using the temple as a place of business rather than worship, I don't doubt the exorbitant fees idea, but it had more to do with using the temple for personal gain rather than worship, secondly the space they were occupying was the outer court where the gentiles were allowed to worship. By setting up shop there, the gentiles had no space within the temple to worship.

 

[yadan]

"IMO, He kicked the money changers out precisely because of His divinity, and “they” did not want God muscling in on their business."
Y'hoshua Ben-Yosef, aka, Jesus, did not kick out the money changers; he overturned their tables.
Getting back to the thread topic, I have discussed the issue of smoking with several rabbis, including Othodox and Reform. There is a biblical commandment forbidding one to do bodily harm to oneself, so I asked them why they refuse to make rulings against cigarette smoking. I have never received a straight answer, but I have seen several rabbis smoking cigarettes!

 

[zonomo]

I present you "Towards a Theology of Pipesmoking"

http://flyingfarther.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/toward-a-theology-of-pipesmoking/

Chapter III-2

This is fantastic!!!! I hope everyone here reads this!

 

[peckinpahhombre]

I knew I was on to something with my anti-aromatic rant.

 

[zonomo]

There is a biblical commandment forbidding one to do bodily harm to oneself, so I asked them why they refuse to make rulings against cigarette smoking. I have never received a straight answer, but I have seen several rabbis smoking cigarettes!

I think just about everything in our world today can and will harm you. Starbucks, processed carbs, tranfat, the air we breathe, McDonald's, butter, salt, the TV we watch, etc. I guess moderation and an ample helping of Grace should be in order. That's why I've never understood the militant church goers waging their pudgy finger from their rotund mid-section at a person smoking. In fact, gluttony is actually called out in the bible.

 

[rlunderhill]

I don't know any Clergy that smoke pipes that I know of. Hard to tell what they do in their private time.
When I have my pipe in my mouth, it attract's others to approach me. It appears to be a sign of kindness to them.
Women smile when they walk by and say hello. I always have a pipe with me for private times but it seems to bring people closer.

 

[brian64]

+1 @ both shaintiques and zonomo re: money changers.

Y'hoshua Ben-Yosef, aka, Jesus, did not kick out the money changers; he overturned their tables.

The account in Luke states that Yeshua "drove them out". Whether one believes that is historically accurate or not is a separate question.

 

[winton]

My church, welcomes everyone. But leadership has a higher standard. These men voluntarily give up things that they might personally accept. They also work long hours for no pay, doing things that most would not do.
Winton

 

[flyguy]

"The Pharisees committed similar sins (adding to the law) enslaving the Jews of Christ's time."
Not quite accurate. It was the occupying Romans, and not the P'rushim (Pharisees) who enslaved, executed, imprisoned or banished rebellious Jews. True, the P'rushim collaborated with the Romans, but they could not set policy nor were they in favor of enslavement.

As for drunkeness, there is a definite implication of it being frowned upon (such as when Hannah was admonished by Eli, the High Priest, when he thought she was drunk), but the only forbiddance concerns the priests serving in the Temple.

You are quite correct in that the occupying Romans (Greeks earlier and Babylonians/Medes/Persians yet earlier)enslaved the Jews. I was speaking with regard to the adding of laws and traditions to the Mosaic Law by religious leaders which increased their burden (enslaved them spiritually). This same practice seems to be prevalent in every religion, which is the jest of the original debate; some "Christians" put an extra-biblical stigma on smokers and drinkers.

 

[judcole]

There were,at one time,a number of active clergymen on Yahoo Pipesmokers2, where I have been a member for many years.

I know my minister emeritus enjoyed an occasional cigar and,in the photo gallery of the ministers who served our church,one has a bulldog clamped firmly in his teeth. He left long before my time, however.