City de Luxe With Oddball Reg. No. ???

[misterlowercase]

Been outta town all week and offline, unexpectedly home for the weekend because the boss had a doctor's appt...
...anyway, before I left I scored this City de Luxe which I believe to be circa 30's or 40's due to a few factors - one of which is the oddball stem and I haven't been able to find anything out about it...
...doing a brief search finds the more common Tuskan Lip,

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?AB=&AP=&CPC=&DB=EPODOC&IC=&IN=&PA=%22james+adler%22&PD=&PN=&PR=&ST=advanced&TI=&locale=en_EP&sortField=ud&ascending=true

...but this one doesn't seem to pop up anywhere.
Reg. No. 798316

Any ideas on how it's supposed to work?
I have a soft spot for CdL pipes, just because I like the star LOL I got a 50's/60's lovat that's one of my Condor pipes and it smokes beautifully.
A sandblasted CdL is quite scarce, so I was glad to find an example, bonus points for a good blast, overall condition is excellent, I'd say near mint --- the stemwork is much better than my lovat, complete with that classic curved cut on slot end.
The NCR prefix may be a clue?
Any info or speculation greatly appreciated!

 

[papipeguy]

Troy, my CdL Canadian has the same Tuskan Lip stem with the same patent # on the underside of the stem. It was one of 5 pipes in a lot that I got from the GoodWill site for $12.00. It's a nice little pipe and smokes better than my GBD Canadian. I have no idea as to its age. It says Straight Grain under the London Made stamping. Shape # 254.

All I really know is that they were a sub-brand of GBD and on the lower end of the price scale.

You have a great looking pipe there. Hope you enjoy many fine bowls with it.

 

[huntertrw]

misterlowercase:
Are you certain of the Reg. No. 798316? Please confirm, and I will see what I can find.

 

[jguss]

Hi Troy,
Beautiful blast on your City de Luxe. You have a real eye for great sandblasts from the 30s and 40s. Congratulations!
I know very little about the CDL line, but can add a few odds and ends.
First, I'm not entirely sure why everyone says that the CDL was a second of GBD. It was clearly an Oppenheimer pipe, and Oppenheimer certainly owned GBD. But it doesn't necessarily follow from that that the CDL was a second of GBD. It may well have been, but I'd be curious to see more definitive proof. Maybe it's in Cole's book; I'm too lazy to dig up and search through my copy. This isn't terribly important, but for several reasons it's an interesting (to me) question all the same.
Second (and tangentially), as the patent for the Tuskan tells you it was introduced in 1933. Pipes bearing the Tuskan were described to the trade as having a "special mouthpiece, the lip of which is fitted with a cleverly contrived insertion, giving it a tremendous power of resistance and the ability to withstand the most powerful jaws". Reference was also made to the double bore "which has been carefully planned, and by distributing the smoke through separate channels assures a cool and event draught".
Third, as for the NCR3532, I'm not sure what that represents. I can tell you the sandblast CDL was called a Rockroot, and I believe it was introduced around 1931. So perhaps the "R" in the NCR refers to the finish? And the number to a shape? But that's pure speculation, and on balance I think unlikely.
Fourth, of greater interest is the reg number. I would guess that it refers to a trademark, not a patent. Assuming you've read it correctly (and based on your pictures I think you have), it suggests production no earlier than the end of 1934, and more likely 1935 or later.
Fifth, the Rockroot finish disappears from trade price lists by the end of WW2; whether that means production had ceased is less clear. If I have the chance I'll dig for advertisements that might yield more info. This point and the prior one support your hypothesis that it's a product of the 30s/40s.
Sixth, as for pricing, where CDL stood in the Oppenheimer pecking order depends on how you think about the line. Certainly GBD pipes were priced higher; but Dr. Plumb pipes and a variety of miscellaneous brands were priced lower.
Sorry I can't tell you more. I'm sure there must be CDL fans out there with more info.
Rgds,

Jon

 

[gloucesterman]

@juss, I think the blast line was called Prehistoric. The Rockroot was a textured finish (grooved top to bottom). And you are right about the sub-brand standing. CDL was a better grade pipe. It often used the same style numbers as GBD but was given a separate identity because of the twin bore. The fit and finish on the two I have are every bit the equal of my higher grade GBDs. Both of mine have a beautiful, flawless flame grain finish, hardly the characteristic of what would be called a second. They are the equal of GBD, they just had the exclusive on the twin bore. Not a second but just a separate brand. Most people assume that pipes coming out of GBD's St. Claude facility were to go to GBD and anything not thought suitable for that brand was a second. But the reality was that plant turned out a great number of stummels and finished piped for a number of labels. Codogan which managed Oppenheimer brands maximized production and produced high quality pipes for a number of labels. Some of the Oppenheimer brands were seconds (Dr. Plumb, etc.) but CDL wasn't. It was given a separate label because it was a twin bore pipe not because it was of inferior quality.

 

[jguss]

Good catch gloucesterman! Prehistoric indeed, not Rockroot. Thanks for the correction!

 

[misterlowercase]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!


Yep, it's Reg. No. 798316, and I agree with you Jon that it's a TM, but the UK IPO doesn't list it in their online database, so I would be doomed to find, then pay for, then scour through those old HM Trade Mark Journals for the slim chance of possibly finding it.
I agree that CdL was a standalone brand,

Michael Lindner has a pretty good write-up here:

http://www.thepiperack.com/blue-chip-estate-pipe-1920s-cased-matched-set-of-city-deluxe-billiards/
Here's another cased CdL:

If I came across a cased stubby billiard I think I'd have to buy it even if it wasn't blasted! :P

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-city-deluxe-london-made-293153990
I think I caused some confusion by mentioning the Tuskan Lip --- what I was trying to say is that the TL is the more common variety of "odd stems" from CdL, in large part because they made them for so long - this catalog page is from 1974/75 and it mentions the Tuskan:

And here's a resto on a TL by Al,

http://rebornpipes.com/tag/city-de-luxe-pipes/
Mine isn't the twin-bore Tuskan, and the tenon insert is an oddity of which I haven't seen another example.
Another odd thing is the logo stamp:

Although that pic has some lens distortion, the London Made part is actually slightly arched and it's placed inside the trailing tail of the e --- it's atypical and I haven't seen another stamping like it.
Advertisements may indeed have the clues.
Now I have more reason to get old copies of Punch!
CdL advertised extensively in the 20's but I'm not sure about the 30's,

only one way to find out and it's a bugbear because Punch was a weekly and it'd be hit or miss finding the right issues with ads I'm interested in...

They also advertised in newspapers,

this one is from the Daily Mail circa 1926:

 

[jguss]

Hi Troy,
Great selection of advertisements; thank you for sharing them. Love those pictures of old pipes when they were brand new!
I understood the reference to Tuskan was tangential; just adding some color on how it was marketed.
As for tracking trademarks, there are easy ways to date them to within a narrow range (the CDL reg is from late 1934/early 1935), but seeing the actual filing is more complicated, and takes time and money.
As for Punch archives, the earliest ones (through I think about 1922) are available free online; the full run was recently digitized by Gale, but is available only to institutions and costs a mint to subscribe to. And, unsurprisingly, there are very few subscribers in the US. Alternatively you can find a library that has the complete run; I know of several that do. But even then it's a very laborious job to request materials, visit the facility, and plow through thousands of pages looking for the relevant ad. On the other hand if you have the time and energy to do it, you'll find things that no one in our hobby has every seen.
Jon

 

[misterlowercase]

As for Punch archives, the earliest ones (through I think about 1922) are available free online; the full run was recently digitized by Gale, but is available only to institutions and costs a mint to subscribe to. And, unsurprisingly, there are very few subscribers in the US. Alternatively you can find a library that has the complete run; I know of several that do. But even then it's a very laborious job to request materials, visit the facility, and plow through thousands of pages looking for the relevant ad. On the other hand if you have the time and energy to do it, you'll find things that no one in our hobby has every seen

Thanks Jon,

it'd be stellar to go through the complete run!

I'm the kind of idiot that would take a week vacation to spend 6 days at such a library :lol: LOL
I used to have access to the UGA library which is wonderful, but at that time I didn't smoke a pipe and was engrossed with concrete poetry and weird art - the UGA stacks had some incredibly rare stuff.

On the other hand if you have the time and energy to do it, you'll find things that no one in our hobby has every seen.

That sentence invoked a sense of thrill in me,

and disbelief because British pipes have long been so popular yet not much indepth serious research has been published on the topic outside of a inspired few who I can count on my fingers.
I am motivated to find odds 'n ends and plod along trying to compile them, but it would be a long process and at this point I've mostly only been online and haven't done any serious print/periodical research - so, I guess I'm moving in the direction of trying to build an archive --- I need to get more dedicated to it and commit a certain amount of time to it all --- as for magazines, Punch is only the tip of the iceberg, more regional magazines would have certain brands not advertised nationally and some specialist magazines would have specific themes, like an old Player's Airman ad I saw from an aviation title, and many more likewise examples I'm sure.
I'm surprised that much of the advertising material hasn't been compiled in a single volume - it's such a rich resource and helps us pinpoint quite a few different aspects.

 

[ssjones]

Fantastic. I've not yet encountered a blasted CDL, nor one with that apparatus.
The CDL stamped case in an example above would go a long way in supporting they were a stand-alone brand.
Neat find, I love that metal Star!

 

[xrundog]

I'm not a City Deluxe expert, but I have one that prompted me to look into the brand a bit. I have the exact bulldog from the third 5'6 ad you posted. I read someplace that City Deluxe was the most popular 5 shilling pipe in England in that era. I found an example of that ad on eBay that supposedly came out of a 1923 magazine. The thick rounded bit style of my pipe leads me to believe that date is close.
How does that apply to your pipe? I can make some suppositions based on my earlier pipe and other English pipes I have. First, your pipe has a flared bit. Most pipes until the 40s had stems that were straight. And those earlier pipes had thicker bits. Some even became narrower in width at the bit. But your pipe has a bit very similar to some 1940s Parkers I have. The same fishtail curve at the end. Plus, companies at the time were trying lots of gadgetry on their pipes.

As to the tenon configuration, I have no clue. It looks like something is missing. But I can't imagine what. I suspect one of the numbers relates to whatever gadget that is.

I know my post is a bit pedantic, and you probably know all this. But I was in the mood to pontificate. ::

 

[misterlowercase]

xrundog - the more talk the better in my book!

Thanks for posting, and you bring up some good points.
Neill Roan published this 1932 price list, which is identical to the 1935 price list I dl'd from Legacy, and both list a "wafer lip" pipe --- very wild speculation on my part would suppose that perhaps this one is one of those, for the bit is indeed wafer thin.

It's likely not a "wafer lip", but who knows?

Bouncing around a little bit on this topic lead me once again to the fertile soils of Reborn Pipes and an essay on an old Hardcastle:

http://rebornpipes.com/2014/06/27/a-unique-piece-of-pipe-history-almost-lost-a-hardcastles-dental-briar-reg-design-no-857327/
It made me wonder if a Reg. Design is the same thing as just a regular Reg. ???
In the Hardcastle case, they opted for a Regd. Design instead of a patent (why?), and it covered both the odd end bit and the tenon gadget.
The article also indicated how frustrating it can be trying to find things --- I had never seen the UK Natl. Archives which are linked, but they were of no help whatsoever, I couldn't even find the advanced search feature!
I did find one hit for Oppenheimer Pipes and it was funny

--- filed in 1936, but refused, the name "King Edward" ---

any other details closed to the public until 2037 :lol:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4169765#
::

 

[misterlowercase]

Sidenote:

Just today I bought abuncha old Punches --- I've been resisting for too long to get serious about getting as many copies as I can, simply because it's all a bit bonkers on the cash outlay for such small dividends,

but I do know for certain that the May 1921 issue I bought will have an Orlik Dugout advert which is a great score -- hopefully the others will have some boffo titbits!
I got a dozen of which are mostly 1921 and 1923, with a couple of 1926 and 1929 thrown in,

and 11 more from 1947.
Here I go down the road to ruin!

:wink:

 

[xrundog]

Looking at the tenon configuration, I wonder if it's meant to be adjustable. The split metal makes me think this. That is, if the tenon becomes loose in the shank, you insert something tapered in the hole (maybe a pencil tip) to expand it and make it fit tight again. Maybe there was an adjustment tool that came with the pipe. Of course that would be quickly misplaced.

 

[ssjones]

Here's another odd City Deluxe. This one is a "Gold Star", I've seen a few on Ebay in the past few years, but they seem to be far less common than the Brass Star outline stem logo CDL's. This one has "Reg. Design 6918839" and "Jollyboy" stamps. I could not find references to them anywhere.

 

[ssjones]

Ok, I found a couple of Jollyboy pipes, it must be a reference to the shape.
This one has a different Reg. Design No. 691829

http://www.smokershaven.com/gbd-estate-pipe-virgin-jollyboy.aspx

 

[mranglophile]

Thats a great shape Al, does it have a name? Looks like a funky cool hawkbill/donkey nut kinda thing. I really appreciate a nice sadlle stem because of my dentures . Really neato!!

 

[misterlowercase]

Love the Jollyboy moniker,

an odd shape for sure.
The Gold Star pipes are indeed scarce.
I would love to see a cutaway and how they drilled it!
::

 

[beefeater33]

Here's my only Gold Star- An odd one for sure. I've never smoked the damned thing.... too "ball sacky"....... 8O

Interesting design though, and a great blast. To switch barrels one just merely turns the stem 180 degrees. No reg. # on this one though......

 

[ssjones]

Ah, knew I'd seen a Gold Star Before.