Cigar Leaf and Red Virginia: What Are They Exactly?

[cobguy]

To add a note about cigar leaf and the strength ... stalk position plays a key role with Ligero being some of the highest in nicotine. I've been rolling my own cigars for awhile now and can say, with certainty, that the fillers used comprise 90% of the taste and strength while the outer wrapper adds mostly mouth-feel, lip-flavor and looks. Due to cost and preparation time, I seldom even wrap mine anymore but, rather, do a high quality double binder.
If you have an interest in really learning about different leaf varieties, you must buy some of each in whole-leaf form and try them individually. It's a great way to taste the individual flavors without the added casings and toppings that go into many pipe blends. Also, it's the least expensive way to buy tobacco.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Also, it's the least expensive way to buy tobacco.

And much less time consuming than watering, picking worms off, and waiting for the plants to grow. Cobguy is dead on. I sure would like to try one of those cigars. That may be my next area of dabbling.

 

[warren]

Cosmic: Where will you get the young Cuban virgins between whose thighs the best cigars are rolled? At least that's how I heard the best are made.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I don't always expect the best, but I have heard that there are a few places in New Orleans that I can buy Cuban 12 year olds. But, I'm not willing to invest that kind of time and money in it. I'll just have to let my goat moisten the wraps with his tongue. If it's good enough for the Nicaraguans...

 

[mso489]

C&D cigar leaf blending tobacco gives a nice change and charge to milder blends or blends that have lost some of their Lat flavor or aros that have faded.

 

[cobguy]

And much less time consuming than watering, picking worms off, and waiting for the plants to grow

LOL ... for sure!
I've been really lucky, so far, with my plants this year.

Believe it or not, I came closer to TOO MUCH water this year ... in AZ!

However, some warmer days and steady winds dried them up and they are looking perky now.

I sure would like to try one of those cigars. That may be my next area of dabbling.

Right now I have Dominican Piloto Cubano (Ligero, Seco and Viso) with both Indonesian and PA wrappers ... PM sent.

Where will you get the young Cuban virgins between whose thighs the best cigars are rolled?

I just wax my own thighs ... you'd never know the difference! :mrgreen:

 

[jvnshr]

I am always skeptical of what the internet says about tobaccos. I think that there is a lot of myth, misunderstandings, and even most tobacconists don't know what the farmer has done before they get hold of it, in some instances. Heck, even the farmers may not know what they have done, ha ha. I mainly trust those who are "doing it," over the rest. This is why I love to skulk around in the grower's forums.
But, really, what do we pipe smokers need to know to really enjoy the stuff we cram into our pipes? Good/bad... However, I think for me it really helps to understand the nuances of how Virginias are processed to understand why two different reds will taste differently. It also helps me fine tune my snobbishness for certain companies, ha ha. I'm a proud snob. And, we all should be. Why have someone else tell us what is good or not?

Totally agree. The information I provided above was just a general info about a single cigar leaf. Tobacco world is full of myths and misunderstandings. We all smoke Latakia but only master blenders and tobacco farmers will know the name of the woods they burn to prepare it.
I enjoy reading tobacco related stuff. I even asked my colleague to arrange a meeting for me with his relative who is working for a company that growths local tobacco. And yeah, the main reason of reading and learning is just to become a proud snob

 

[jvnshr]

Where will you get the young Cuban virgins between whose thighs the best cigars are rolled?

I think Cosmic can grow them as well.

Right now I have Dominican Piloto Cubano (Ligero, Seco and Viso) with both Indonesian and PA wrappers ... PM sent.
I just wax my own thighs ... you'd never know the difference! :mrgreen:

You might not get a reply to your PM.

 

[jabo]

Seen pictures of his garden. Cosmic can grow anything.

 

[mawnansmiff]

"The 100 seeds planted in different regions would be no different than if you planted 100 seeds of grapes in different soils would give you 100 different types of wine."
Cosmic, I am assuming by your above comment that there would be no difference in the leaves grown from the same seeds but in different parts of the world, is this what you mean?
Regards,
Jay.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Cosmic, I am assuming by your above comment that there would be no difference in the leaves grown from the same seeds but in different parts of the world, is this what you mean?

Well, if grapes from France are grown in California, Germany, or Australia, you get the same exact plant, but because of the way the plants are fed, they produce slightly different tasting wines. I am absolutely no wine expert, nor can I tell the difference with my novice tastebuds. But, the experts can taste it. Also, the same plants, from year to year will produce slightly different tasting wines, and this is why some years of an exact same plant will be more sought after on the market.

I have tasted sun-cured izmir grown in the US (not sure exactly where) and it was delicious, but it did have a slightly different flavor, but I am not as blessed as some on here to be able to put my finger on exactly what the differences are.
So, yes, there is a difference, but it isn't as drastic, or at least to the novice it isn't. However, there may be strains that are so different that they becomes something new.

You asked me a simple question, and I gave you a bunch of words. I hope that somewhere in my response is the answer you are looking for, ha ha. An answer from a novice player in the dirt, ha ha.

 

[mawnansmiff]

Thanks Cosmic. I wasn't so much interested in grapevines as tobacco leaves as earlier this morning I read an article by Russ Oullette stating...(my underlining)...
"a number of years back one of the cigarette companies thought that it would be a heck of a lot cheaper if we were to grow Turkish and Oriental tobaccos in the US. So they got seeds from a lot of the varietals, brought it back to the US and planted it and what they wound up with was Burley. It was indistinguishable from some of the other Burley plants, but because of the climatic and soil conditions over there, that seed produced a tobacco that was very different. It was very fragrant, more aromatic, and fuller flavored. But when it was brought over here, it turned out to be a high oil, low sugar, pretty straight forward Burley type tobacco. The variety and the things you can do with tobacco are pretty amazing."
It basically answered my question of planting the same seeds in different regions and getting different results. It seems clear to me that endless flavours are to be had depending on regional sowings of differing varieties.
Thanks again.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I can only speak from my experience of swapping and tasting samples grown by tobacco growing friends on a forum. I know that one shouldn't take the word of some stranger saying that his experiences were different over a professional tobacconist, so I will just tip my hat to Russ's post. But, many, many growing hobbyist buy Turkish seeds and grow it year after year all over the US and the world.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Thanks Jabo! I'll have to bring some of my homegrown to pipe club, now that my first year's leaf is ready. See you Monday!!!

 

[mawnansmiff]

"But, many, many growing hobbyist buy Turkish seeds and grow it year after year all over the US and the world."
That I don't doubt Cosmic, I just suspect that they would all taste different to one and another.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I just suspect that they would all taste different to one and another.

That, I don't doubt in the least, but I do doubt whether my own taste buds could detect much of a difference. I'm also a horrible wine taster, ha ha.

 

[jvnshr]

Also, please keep in mind that sometimes you cannot simply grow a tobacco from Africa in the States for example. When the States put embargo on Cuba, countries like Nicaragua, Dominican Republic and others tried to bring the seeds from Cuba and grow them in their own soils. They couldn't get the results they were waiting for so they had to modify them and make hybrid tobacco. Actually all the tobacco grown around the world is a hybrid of tobacco that was brought from America.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Didn't Nicaraguan examples of Cuban seed surpass taste tests, making Nicaraguan cigars the top pick in the world for cigars. Sort of like California blows France out of the water now in the Nationals for wine. Seems like I read that in Aficionado magazine. But, Cuban seed that is grown here by hobbyist are still used in hobby cigars grow/roller. I just have no first hand experience there. So, it seems to maintain some of the qualities that the tobacco develops in these places. You guys would love to read the banter between the commercial and hobby growers on the grower forums. Just pick one, they all have these same great arguments.
All tobacco, according to most authors, derived from rustica, which is a shorter way more potent plant. I also grow that one. It takes decades for a plant to change flavors drastically in a region. But, tobacco's ability to adapt to any environment, from northern regions of Canada to Ecuador to South Africa, the plant quickly has become a very diverse plant. It is amazing how fast it went from Columbus landing to whole new strains being grown across the world. What a fun hobby this is.

 

[jvnshr]

Cosmic really? I thought nicotiana tabacum and nicotiana rustica were just siblings. I know that there are other species in Nicotiana genus that took some role in creation of nicotiana tabacum (tobacco), but I have never heard or read what you said. Wow, I will research more tomorrow, it is getting very interesting. Thanks for the info.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Ha ha, I think it was Bill Drake that I first read of rustica. Then it was the American Spirit people who first cultivated rustica from archaeological samples. So, most of what is known now, is not the same as what was published before Drake's work. I wish I had my Kindle here. I think his name is Drake, that was associated with the American Spirit folks and cultivated the crops along the Mexican border. Anyways, this is nit picking, regardless of which plant, it adapts very easily.