Cigar Leaf and Red Virginia: What Are They Exactly?

[mawnansmiff]

Whilst reading tobacco reviews I often come across mention of certain blends containing cigar leaf or red Virginia. What exactly are these and how do they affect blends that contain them.
I have also often read of folks having negative reactions to red Virginia, why is this so?
Regards,
Jay.

 

[rfernand]

Ross Ouellette has a good page on these and most other types:
http://www.pipesandcigars.com/mobile/faq/article/132/ouellettes-tobacco-types-descriptions

 

[cosmicfolklore]

There is only one guy in the whole of the universe that is allergic to red Virginia, and that is Harris/ AKA cgrmaster.
When curing the harvest from the Virginia Gold seedstock, it can be heated to various levels to get different coloration and caramelization of the natural sugars in the leaf. Red is heated to 188F, but the same leaf can be Yellow, gold, orange, red, brown to black, depending on the heat cure. Red is just considered the tastiest, most balanced, and walks that fine line between raw and caramelized sugars. The darker the leaf the more caramelized the leaf tastes. When it starts to taste "earthy" then many would consider the cure has gone bunk. I do not smoke "earthy" tasting Virginias.
Cigar leaf can be any number of leaf stock that is used in the cigar industry, but usually refers to madura. This is a whole different burley that is aged in a much different way than pipe tobacco, and it receives a lot more individual handling during the fermentation process. I assume you have had a cigar.

 

[mawnansmiff]

Thanks R for the link to Russ's page, I shall read it in the morning.
Cosmic, am rather glad you spied my plea as you seem to have knowledge of tobacco growing. Interesting to read that red Virginia is simply a processed 'regular' Virginia. I suspect that it is therefore only used as a condiment in blends and not simply on its own? I suppose I must have several blends here containing RV though none are labelled as such.
My only experience with cigars is with Henri Winterman 'Cafe Creme' cigars which I suppose don't count. Are you able to describe the taste of Madura cigar leaf I wonder?
Much obliged chaps.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[beastinview]

I too found Cosmic's post quite enlightening.

Interesting to read that red Virginia is simply a processed 'regular' Virginia. I suspect that it is therefore only used as a condiment in blends and not simply on its own?

I think what Cosmic was saying is that all of the Virginias are processed in some way, and Red VA is merely a point on that spectrum, presumably towards the middle of the spectrum, as I assume the yellow and orange are heated less than red, and the brown and black are heated more.
To address your second comment, I believe Red Virginia is actually more used as a base component than a condiment. I have some McClelland Red Cake (5100), which is straight Red Virginia, and it's a very nice, mild smoke. Not a lot of nicotine, and not robust in flavor, but pleasant to be sure.
To my nose, the brighter Virginia leaf has a tin note more like grass or tea leaves, while the red has more of a fermented or vinegary aroma--like ketchup or cherries.

 

[blendtobac]

Red Virginia is more heavily matured, leading to a deeper, richer flavor than brights. There are a number of tobaccos that are mostly, if not entirely red Virginia, one of the best examples being McClelland 5100.

Cigar leaf is closest in flavor, for the most part, to a dark Burley. It tends to be earthy and spicy, but it can vary widely depending upon the strain, the growing region and how it's processed.
Russ

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Yes, most Virginias are flue cured, and in flue curing the leaf undergoes a heat and humidity controlled curing that brings out a caramelized taste in the sugars. The more heat, the deeper the color. And, as Russ points out, there are many tobaccos that are purely red, gold, and even brown, but some is also mixed. I prefer my Latakia mixes to have reds in them for a deeper bass note.

However, some are air cured, which I am not partial to, and some is even fire cured or processed as a cavendish.
My shed this year was brought up to 188F and two days got me mostly bright red delicious looking leaf. It will be two sweats and two years before I'll break it out to share. But, my first batch from two years ago is ready, somewhat. I'll break it out at Thanksgiving.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

BTW, I don't consider myself an expert. There are still tons I need to learn to get my crop seemlessly to glass jars. I am still fiddling, but it's an educated fiddle, ha ha. Somewhat.

 

[mawnansmiff]

Many thanks everyone. I have now read Russ's page and that along with answers given here have helped my understanding of tobacco varieties and what can be done with them.
I suspect that if one had say 100 seeds of the same tobacco plant, 100 different and quite unique leaves could be produced simply by planting in different soils in different regions and then processing those leaves in different ways. Quite fascinating really.
So much more to tobacco than meets the eye.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Well, almost. The 100 seeds planted in different regions would be no different than if you planted 100 seeds of grapes in different soils would give you 100 different types of wine. There are growing forums with people from all over discussing growing tobacco, if this is something that interests you. Just Google tobacco growing forums, there are several.

 

[jvnshr]

Are you able to describe the taste of Madura cigar leaf I wonder?

When you say Maduro, the first thing that comes to mind is "oily". It is an oily, sweet leaf with an earthy smell.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Madura is a stronger flavored and nic content leaf. The darker wrapped cigars are (most of the time) madura wrapped, although there are a few other dark cigar leafs, madura is the most popular, at least for me.

My novice understanding is that darker cigars will have a stronger flavor and be made with at least the wrapper being madura, and the lighter ones (that I like) are wrapped in Connecticut. But, there are many other variations and darker and lighter cigars. Like I said, I am a novice, but I have my two favorites.

 

[jvnshr]

Maduro can be understood as two things:
1- Color of the wrapper: The wrapper colors are double claro, claro, colorado claro, colorado, colorado maduro, maduro and oscuro (double maduro).

2- Name of the process of a specific fermentation (like Perique): The top leaves of the plant is extra sun ripened (in order to protect the leaves plant produces more oil to cover the leaves (like Oriental tobacco) and then the leaves are fermented at a higher temperature than other cigar leaves. As a result you get very dark, oily, full-flavored tobacco leaves (yummy).
From color perspective a cigar can have a Maduro color but not have a Maduro wrapper or a cigar can have a Maduro wrapper but may not be in Maduro color.

My novice understanding is that darker cigars will have a stronger flavor

Not always. Lighter and medium shades will mostly tell how that cigar would smoke, however darker shades can be deceptive.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Thanks jvnshr, I didn't know that.

 

[jvnshr]

You are welcome Cosmic, I edited the post and made a comment to your post as well. And we are all novices, aren't we. I am not a professional either and I have neither grown nor fermented a single tobacco leaf in my life. That's just what I read from several resources.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I am always skeptical of what the internet says about tobaccos. I think that there is a lot of myth, misunderstandings, and even most tobacconists don't know what the farmer has done before they get hold of it, in some instances. Heck, even the farmers may not know what they have done, ha ha. I mainly trust those who are "doing it," over the rest. This is why I love to skulk around in the grower's forums.
But, really, what do we pipe smokers need to know to really enjoy the stuff we cram into our pipes? Good/bad... However, I think for me it really helps to understand the nuances of how Virginias are processed to understand why two different reds will taste differently. It also helps me fine tune my snobbishness for certain companies, ha ha. I'm a proud snob. And, we all should be. Why have someone else tell us what is good or not?

 

[beastinview]

I think really the only reason I try to learn about tobacco is to understand the different genres so that I can make educated purchases in the future. Beyond that basic understanding, I think you're right Cosmic--very few people probably have the full picture and understanding of what happens to a certain leaf during all the processes--growing, curing, blending, etc.--between seed and smoke.

 

[mawnansmiff]

T'is indeed a fascinating subject, the more I read about it the more I would like to have a go at growing it. Sadly I no longer have the space and when I was on the farm was smoking RYO and growing tons of spring onions, parsley etc, not quite the same really :?
Regards,
Jay.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I've seen blogs by guys who grow a couple of potted plants of cigar leaf, harvest them one at a time, and ferment them themself, and roll a cigar once in a while, just to dabble with the process. It's possible. A couple of VA Golds in pots, would get your feet wet with a possible fun and rewarding hobby.

 

[mso489]

My tobacco knowledge is pretty general, but one piece of trivia I like to trot out on occasion is that Connecticut is a big cigar tobacco state, not something you usually associate with the Northeast.