China's Tarrifs Affect Tobacco

[seacaptain]

Don't forget tariffs are taxes. Protectionism has never been successful, its artificial. A free market only works when the consumer is left to decide. So yes there has been a free market, but it's not been seen in the US since Articles of Confederation.

Protectionism was successful in the US (for a variety of reasons) from the end of the Civil War to WWI. I'm not saying I agree with it though. Again, I'm an advocate of free trade in theory and you touched on an important point about the free market not being seen since the 1780's.
I tend to agree because it goes back to Adam Smith's capitalism vs mercantilism. We used to have a capitalist economy and people still think we do, but we really operate much more like British mercantilism, or what modern Americans call "crony capitalism", which was championed by Henry Clay as the "American System" ("Internal Improvements"), and fully implemented as government policy by his protege Abraham Lincoln (National Banks, railroad subsidies, etc.)
That being said, no country operates a capitalist system today, they all have varying degrees of government control/interference/subsidies (mercantilism, "crony capitalism", socialism etc.), and as such, you will never have truly free trade. So, the best you can hope for is to adjust the trade laws to benefit your own country, which has been a long time coming for the US. We've been getting raped at least since NAFTA in 1994.

 

[perdurabo]

I think we are all talking legislation/taxes and its effect on tobacco, not politics. Take the popcorn elsewhere. I don't believe any one has been promoting campaigns on this thread nor would they. Unless they want to be an ass.
Seacaptain, I think it would be safe to say we have never had Laissez-faire. Although I support it 100%.
As Sable put it, a lot of dick swinging, that will cost American citizens in the end. Good point Sable.

 

[maker]

Merrium Webster Definition of politics. 1 : the activities, actions, and policies that are used to gain and hold power in a government or to influence a government. 2 : a person's opinions about the management of government.

 

[woodsroad]

"Divisive Partisan Politics" perhaps.

 

[seacaptain]

Not sure why anyone is taking offense about politics. We're having a discussion about government trade policy, not bashing "liberals" or "conservatives". Some people just like to be offended I guess.

 

[perdurabo]

Ah, Webster's needs to stop moving goal post, that 2 definition is technically ideology.
Nice try, Maker, but you are free not to post.

 

[lawmax3]

IMO, When your country no longer has the manufacturing infrastructure to make goods sooner or later it will damage the economy. And when there is an absolutely insanely unbalanced trade deficit (in Chinas favor) the US is weakened.

The US has lost a lot of infrastructure in areas such as steel production etc.

We have been shifting from a manufacturing based economy to a service based economy. When that happens the economy becomes weaker as a result. In 1990, the manufacturing industry employed more workers than any other sector in 36 states. as of 2014 manufacturing was the dominant industry in only seven states.

Yep, it may be painful for us to have trade disputes, it may cost some jobs in the near term.

I really really hate to see any areas such as farming take a hit from all of this.

In the long term I believe it will strengthen the economy as manufacturing infrastructure and jobs are added to meet demand.

An economy based on manufacturing and selling things generally is much better and stronger.

Maybe its time to do some "dick swinging" We've been getting our asses handed to us by the Chinese for way too long.

Fellas that's just my two cents. Not trying to rile anyone or ruffle feathers just giving an opinion.

 

[perdurabo]

Back to the Oringial Point, this thread was for the uninformed that aren't stuck up the media's ass and of course here we go again our Hobby is under attack. If you are offend about legislation talk, pm a mod. Start a petition to close down all discussion revolving around these types of conversations. We can all revert to the blind leading the blind and watch as tyranny dissolves the Civil Society.
Some Mods have over stated their intent that an OP be allowed to flourish, not to be railroaded by individuals wanting to get threads closed down.

 

[username]

Probably hit cigarettes the hardest. Isn't china the largest smoking market in the world?

 

[dmcmtk]

lawmax3, well said sir.

 

[brian64]

We'll see how far it goes after all the Chinese manufactured electronic circuitry running the US's national defense suddenly shuts down.

Surely you’re not suggesting we should manufacture that stuff ourselves...that would be so protectionist.

 

[jvnshr]

What is a tobacco waste? Do you guys export cigar or pipe tobacco ash to China? :lol:

 

[aldecaker]

"Surely you’re not suggesting we should manufacture that stuff ourselves..."
Brian, I think you're missing a big part of the point. We can't manufacture things here because industry is dirty. As long as things are made on the other side of the planet, where there are few environmental regulations, pollution simply isn't happening because we can't see it. It doesn't matter how much Chinese output we consume; as long as we use a re-usable hemp shopping bag and buy fair trade coffee at Starbucks, we can sleep the sleep of the self-righteous knowing that we're saving the planet. :D

 

[perdurabo]

SeaCap' this is for you, if others would like to read do so, it's a neat overview into a subject that intrigues me.
https://mises.org/library/henry-clay-national-socialist

 

[perdurabo]

Tobacco Waste? I thought that was cigarettes.

 

[seacaptain]

SeaCap' this is for you, if others would like to read do so, it's a neat overview into a subject that intrigues me.
https://mises.org/library/henry-clay-national-socialist

Thanks! That was a great article that really expounded on the points I made above about Clay and Lincoln and the mercantilist "American System", which supplanted capitalism in the 1860's.
One of the most frustrating things about modern economic discussions is that almost everyone assumes and perpetuates the idea that we are a capitalist economy, which isn't true.
The economic problems that people complain about in American "capitalism" are really problems created by the implementation of mercantilist policies, not capitalism. But yet, everyone blames "capitalism" and uses the "failures of capitalism" to further socialist agendas, exacerbating and enlarging the very problems they complain about.

 

[brian64]

Brian, I think you're missing a big part of the point. We can't manufacture things here because industry is dirty. As long as things are made on the other side of the planet, where there are few environmental regulations, pollution simply isn't happening because we can't see it. It doesn't matter how much Chinese output we consume; as long as we use a re-usable hemp shopping bag and buy fair trade coffee at Starbucks, we can sleep the sleep of the self-righteous knowing that we're saving the planet.

Very true. The globalists hi-jacked environmentalism a long time ago to use as a proxy for their agenda of de-industrializing the US. And now the only thing you ever hear about is the carbon BS while any real environmental issues are ignored.
It's just another one of those false choices...manufacturing does not have to do massive environmental damage. They just want everyone to think that.