Child Labor And Tobacco Farming
- Thread starter scloyd
- Start date
SmokingPipes.com Updates
Watch for Updates Twice a Week
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
Site Sponsors
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
- Status
It’s funny. This thread comes up all the time. Different avatars but essentially the same arguments. Which is convenient beciase I don’t need to change a single word from my post back then.
I will say the experience of a white boy helping out on a family farm in 1980’s Kentucky has little parallel with that of a modern day tenant farmer in Malawi, But hey, let’s not rock das boot.
Here’s what I said back then....get your torches ready...
This thread falls in to the same category as the the "smoking naked" thread.
However, I would like to make two very basic points.
First off, I think the article Michael linked to is overstating the dangers to the young people working on the tobacco farms. The only time I remember getting "nicotine sickness" was when stripping the tobacco after curing, and only on the really long work days where several wagon loads were stripped. Even then, it was mild and never enough to cause me to step away from the work.
Firstly, your experience Tinsel is not typical for the average tobacco farmer or worker.
China 36%, India 10%, Brazil 9%, USA 6% and Malawi 2% contribute over 60% of the world's annual tobacco crop.
China is amongst the ten most cited countries for human rights violations.
Malawi is one of the most poor countries in the world. The majority of farmers lease their farms from corporate landowners whom also set the price for the tobacco.
Here's one of many video's that discuss tobacco production in Malawi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOiWeJxYxvE
While the US has the fewest number of human rights violations for farm workers in this group, standards did lag behind both India and Brazil and there were well documented cases of children as young as 12 working 12 hours shifts every day. Tobacco farms in the US were exempt from following all the provision of child labor laws. These children would not be allowed to work at a Pizza Hut because they would not qualify for a workers permit. In 2015 the US instituted policy to raise the minimum age of tobacco field workers to 18.
Here are a few links that cover the labor market and the conditions and hazards associated with production. Basic stuff.
http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/child-labor-us-tobacco-farming-human-rights
https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/05/13/tobaccos-hidden-children/hazardous-child-labor-united-states-tobacco-farming
https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/04/16/us-ban-hazardous-child-labor-tobacco-farming
This post was made with about 5 minutes of research which is the second point I wanted to make. There is a ton of information out there for anyone with an interest in looking. Was the OP's intention to make us all reflect on the industries global impact?
POSTED 2 YEARS AGO #
In this thread, for a fun flashback to the present
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/ethicsenvironmental-concerns-regarding-pipe-tobacco-cultivation
I will say the experience of a white boy helping out on a family farm in 1980’s Kentucky has little parallel with that of a modern day tenant farmer in Malawi, But hey, let’s not rock das boot.
Here’s what I said back then....get your torches ready...
This thread falls in to the same category as the the "smoking naked" thread.
However, I would like to make two very basic points.
First off, I think the article Michael linked to is overstating the dangers to the young people working on the tobacco farms. The only time I remember getting "nicotine sickness" was when stripping the tobacco after curing, and only on the really long work days where several wagon loads were stripped. Even then, it was mild and never enough to cause me to step away from the work.
Firstly, your experience Tinsel is not typical for the average tobacco farmer or worker.
China 36%, India 10%, Brazil 9%, USA 6% and Malawi 2% contribute over 60% of the world's annual tobacco crop.
China is amongst the ten most cited countries for human rights violations.
Malawi is one of the most poor countries in the world. The majority of farmers lease their farms from corporate landowners whom also set the price for the tobacco.
Here's one of many video's that discuss tobacco production in Malawi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOiWeJxYxvE
While the US has the fewest number of human rights violations for farm workers in this group, standards did lag behind both India and Brazil and there were well documented cases of children as young as 12 working 12 hours shifts every day. Tobacco farms in the US were exempt from following all the provision of child labor laws. These children would not be allowed to work at a Pizza Hut because they would not qualify for a workers permit. In 2015 the US instituted policy to raise the minimum age of tobacco field workers to 18.
Here are a few links that cover the labor market and the conditions and hazards associated with production. Basic stuff.
http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/child-labor-us-tobacco-farming-human-rights
https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/05/13/tobaccos-hidden-children/hazardous-child-labor-united-states-tobacco-farming
https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/04/16/us-ban-hazardous-child-labor-tobacco-farming
This post was made with about 5 minutes of research which is the second point I wanted to make. There is a ton of information out there for anyone with an interest in looking. Was the OP's intention to make us all reflect on the industries global impact?
POSTED 2 YEARS AGO #
In this thread, for a fun flashback to the present
http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/ethicsenvironmental-concerns-regarding-pipe-tobacco-cultivation
On the secrecy surrounding children working in tobacco fields
"First of all, the children that show up in the clinic, maybe they'll say they ate something bad ... in any case, you don't have child workers walking through the door saying, 'Oh I worked in tobacco and now I'm sick.' They may look at a parent like, 'What do I say?' Or the parent will be like, 'No no no no, they weren't working,' out of fear. And they've been warned, 'You can't tell anybody that your child's working, because you could get in trouble, your child could be taken from you' — none of which is true. So there is a certain sense of, 'We have to hide this,' and then obviously after a lot of the work that's been done by Human Rights Watch, [North Carolina Focus on Increasing Education Leadership and Dignity], us, they know now that there's some controversy."
You do realize they're talking about people who aren't even supposed to be here, let alone working in a tobacco field, don't you? Enforcing child labor laws (in this particular context) is a moot point if you enforce immigration law in the first place. The article couldn't make it more clear that they aren't talking about locals' children working on small family farms.
"First of all, the children that show up in the clinic, maybe they'll say they ate something bad ... in any case, you don't have child workers walking through the door saying, 'Oh I worked in tobacco and now I'm sick.' They may look at a parent like, 'What do I say?' Or the parent will be like, 'No no no no, they weren't working,' out of fear. And they've been warned, 'You can't tell anybody that your child's working, because you could get in trouble, your child could be taken from you' — none of which is true. So there is a certain sense of, 'We have to hide this,' and then obviously after a lot of the work that's been done by Human Rights Watch, [North Carolina Focus on Increasing Education Leadership and Dignity], us, they know now that there's some controversy."
You do realize they're talking about people who aren't even supposed to be here, let alone working in a tobacco field, don't you? Enforcing child labor laws (in this particular context) is a moot point if you enforce immigration law in the first place. The article couldn't make it more clear that they aren't talking about locals' children working on small family farms.
As the original poster of this forum I would like to add that if you only read the article, try to go back and actually listen to the 11 minute interview. The article is the "Interview Highlights" which makes it seem that they're talking mainly about family farm kids working on family farms. They don't mention Hispanic/immigrant until the very end of the article. The interview on the radio is actually mainly about immigrant families working the tobacco fields in NC.
I read all of your thoughts...here are mine.
I see no problem with children working on family or neighbors farms. Builds character, teaches skills... Families and neighbors will watch over and protect their own. My 4 year old grandson "works" for me in the backyard. He walks around picking up sticks so Papa doesn't run over them with the lawnmower. He's usually picking up sticks for 10 minutes and I give him a few "shinies" (coins) for his piggy bank. He's four and he's doing an age appropriate job.
Do young immigrant children really work long days out in the tobacco fields side by side with their parents? Is it really as bad as stated in the interview? I don't know, I've never worked on a farm myself. I live in a small farming town in northern Illinois and I know a few farmers, they hire high school kids part-time when help is needed. A lot of the farms around here are "tourism" farms...pick your strawberries, blueberries, raspberries and apple orchards.
I posted the interview because as I listened I found it interesting. I just wanted to know what other members thought about it. I enjoyed pitchforks YouTube video, thanks for posting.
I read all of your thoughts...here are mine.
I see no problem with children working on family or neighbors farms. Builds character, teaches skills... Families and neighbors will watch over and protect their own. My 4 year old grandson "works" for me in the backyard. He walks around picking up sticks so Papa doesn't run over them with the lawnmower. He's usually picking up sticks for 10 minutes and I give him a few "shinies" (coins) for his piggy bank. He's four and he's doing an age appropriate job.
Do young immigrant children really work long days out in the tobacco fields side by side with their parents? Is it really as bad as stated in the interview? I don't know, I've never worked on a farm myself. I live in a small farming town in northern Illinois and I know a few farmers, they hire high school kids part-time when help is needed. A lot of the farms around here are "tourism" farms...pick your strawberries, blueberries, raspberries and apple orchards.
I posted the interview because as I listened I found it interesting. I just wanted to know what other members thought about it. I enjoyed pitchforks YouTube video, thanks for posting.
"Do young immigrant children really work long days out in the tobacco fields side by side with their parents?"
Yes, they often do. Even if the parents come here on a legal work visa, if they bring their children with them, they are also put to work. The entire purpose of the migrants is to make money; the kids are just another family resource for providing money. To the best of my knowledge, H2 visas are not issued to 7-year olds, but say the husband gets one and brings the wife and kids along. They're not going to spend the day shopping at Nordstrom while Dad works, they're just going to work illegally. Hence the cash payments from large corporate farms, who willingly use the loophole intended for small family farms.
If the family hopped the border illegally, all bets are off anyway, and there won't even be a second thought to who is supposed to be working or not. That's why it's illegal labor.
Yes, they often do. Even if the parents come here on a legal work visa, if they bring their children with them, they are also put to work. The entire purpose of the migrants is to make money; the kids are just another family resource for providing money. To the best of my knowledge, H2 visas are not issued to 7-year olds, but say the husband gets one and brings the wife and kids along. They're not going to spend the day shopping at Nordstrom while Dad works, they're just going to work illegally. Hence the cash payments from large corporate farms, who willingly use the loophole intended for small family farms.
If the family hopped the border illegally, all bets are off anyway, and there won't even be a second thought to who is supposed to be working or not. That's why it's illegal labor.
Children, particularly in "Third World" countries have to "pay their way" and support the family. No different really in the "West" back in the day. Sons were preferred, of course, to work the family farm or find a way, in the towns, to bring in a few pennies as soon as they were capable of doing so. The US and most western countries now have machines, an adult labor force, and laws prohibiting children from taking jobs from adults, euphemistically referred to as "child labor laws."
There is a tie-in to immigration laws in that one of the reasons for such laws is to protect jobs for adults, even if adults do not want the, usually menial, jobs. To cut to the chase, various chambers of commerce see the need for cheap labor and immigration, legal and illegal, seems to be the only avenue of getting such.
There is a tie-in to immigration laws in that one of the reasons for such laws is to protect jobs for adults, even if adults do not want the, usually menial, jobs. To cut to the chase, various chambers of commerce see the need for cheap labor and immigration, legal and illegal, seems to be the only avenue of getting such.
Child care costs money, these kids are part of the team. The farm team.
These people work for a living.
These people work for a living.
If you are referring to my post as delusional, what part of "no work, no food" do you not understand? It's reality in many locales. Just leave the touristy areas and watch the kids picking through the dump, looking for food, something to sell or otherwise utile. In those countries it's all about survival. In the west, it's predominantly about economics, cheap labor, no matter what spin is used to make the situation more palatable and garner support for a particular position.
- Status