Cheap Tobacco is Better Than It Should Be

[Searock Fan]

Talk about cheap! I can be a real Scrooge when I want to. When my ash tray gets full I take it out in the back yard, check the wind direction, then pore the contents into a kitchen strainer. I shake it around until the fine white ash stops coming out the bottom. Now I'm left with the dottle from my previous smokes.

You guessed it! I smoke it. In my case it's not a bad smoke at all as it's simply the unsmoked tobacco from the last 10 days or so. Some how I get a satisfaction from feeling the I was able to beat the system. Hey, we all have our little quirks.

 

[Sig]

A lot of the $16 a pound RYO is made with homogenized (reconstituted) tobacco.
Scraps, veins, and stems are made into a pulp, then made into sheets of paper.
Then its shredded to look like tobacco leaf.
Some of these RYO tobaccos are mixed with real leaf, some are 100% reconstituted tobacco.
I personally dont want the unknown binding agents in my tobacco. But yo each their own.
There is a native owned cigarette factory near us. They use more than 75% reconstituted in their dozen or more bags of RYO "pipe tobacco" brands. If you look closely, you can tell its shredded paper.
They get pallets of this reconstituted tobacco made who knows where in their factory. A friend of ours is a forklift operator there. He personally unloads it.

 

[lukasstrifeson]

A lot of the $16 a pound RYO is made with homogenized (reconstituted) tobacco.
Scraps, veins, and stems are made into a pulp, then made into sheets of paper.
Then its shredded to look like tobacco leaf.
Some of these RYO tobaccos are mixed with real leaf, some are 100% reconstituted tobacco.
I personally dont want the unknown binding agents in my tobacco. But yo each their own.
There is a native owned cigarette factory near us. They use more than 75% reconstituted in their dozen or more bags of RYO "pipe tobacco" brands. If you look closely, you can tell its shredded paper.
They get pallets of this reconstituted tobacco made who knows where in their factory. A friend of ours is a forklift operator there. He personally unloads it.

Was gonna say I've had a delicious house English blend from a B&M in North Carolina (sometime in 2015/16) for $1.75 an ounce, and I thought THAT was a steal.

 

[makhorkasmoker]

Inspired by briar lee’s posts, I tried a couple of RYO “pipe tobaccos”. I tried smoking them off and on for a while, and I can’t stand them. Part of the problem is the toppings they use— to imitate the commercial cigarette taste. But the real problem is an underlying bitter nastiness. I don’t know if the explanation is what Sig said above or something else , but there’s a real harshness. This is from someone whose daily smoke is mostly whole leaf Kentucky burley

 

[Briar Lee]

I bought a pack of Lucky Filters when I was waiting to see the Corpse Flower (bad enough to be the only smoker in a line of thousands without being so Scottish as to smoke 75 cent a pack RYO) and they had more nicotine but I was really glad to get back home to my Buoy Golds.

Are they partly HTML like the Luckies were?



They don’t look it, there’s little pieces of leaf, and occasionally a stem, and at the bottom of a five pound sack I have to roll them up using Bugler papers and a hand roller.

Rouse is a small operator. I’d say he sells the scraps to the majors.

When I smoked factory cigarettes I smoked American Spirit Straights, for about 30 years.

Those were pure leaf and occasionally there would be a bad one or even a bad pack that would taste like insecticide.

I’ve finished up 25 pounds of Buoy Gold and have one carton of tubes left from a fifty carton order, but I’ve also rolled up over 2,700 70mm Buglers and quite a few king size straights using 1 1/4 papers.

Buoy Gold is mostly North Carolina bright leaf, and some burley and a little Maryland to help it burn.

I have 50 pounds more and 100 cartons of tubes.

There’s a scene in The African Queen where Bogie muses he has 2,000 cigarettes and he was prepared to sit out the war.

Thats only 10 cartons.

Buoy Gold makes a delicious, mild, and smooth cigarette.

Plus it’s tasty in a pipe.

And it’s absolutely consistent until the very bottom of a pack, where it tastes good but it’s crumbled.

 

[Pypkė]

A lot of the $16 a pound RYO is made with homogenized (reconstituted) tobacco.
Scraps, veins, and stems are made into a pulp, then made into sheets of paper.
Then its shredded to look like tobacco leaf.

I didn't know they processed some tobacco in that way. Need to avoid crappy products like that.

None of the smoke shops in my area sell Buoy Gold. So I tried Kentucky Select - with the yellow label. Here's another data point for you all. Looks like real tobacco to me.

 

[Sig]

I didn't know they processed some tobacco in that way. Need to avoid crappy products like that.

None of the smoke shops in my area sell Buoy Gold. So I tried Kentucky Select - with the yellow label. Here's another data point for you all. Looks like real tobacco to me.

View attachment 408765

View attachment 408766

Its very hard to tell.
The reconstituted tobacco is "technically" tobacco and made to mix in with leaf tobacco.
Because it is technically tobacco, they do not have to say its homogenized, reconstituted tobacco stems.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

I've never suspected that any of the ryo tobacco blends were tobacco paper... It might make them better for making cigarettes if they were.

IMO the satisfaction felt from a factory made homogenized cigarette can't be matched by any ryo brand.

Show me a brand that is homogenized and I'll buy it and try it out.

 

[Briar Lee]

I've never suspected that any of the ryo tobacco blends were tobacco paper... It might make them better for making cigarettes if they were.

IMO the satisfaction felt from a factory made homogenized cigarette can't be matched by any ryo brand.

Show me a brand that is homogenized and I'll buy it and try it out.

He’s right!

People smoked roll your own or factory rolled cigarettes for years and years until RJ Reynolds introduced Camel, the first modern cigarette.

Camels began to destroy all the natural cigarettes.

By World War Two the gubbermint made sure big tobacco got all the flavorings (including rationed sugar) they needed.

The 1960 invention of HTML was adopted by every maker as an improvement because they could flavor that 15% or so of the smoke to make sure every one was satisfying, mild, tasty and most importantly to the brand flavor profile.

Buoy Gold is unflavored and all natural.

You’ll smoke more. They are an aquired taste.

I doubt Kentucky’s Best or Rouse have the chemists and labs and capital to custom make their own HTML. They probably sell the scraps to the majors.

But there is a huge profit margin in turning $2 a pound FDA graded leaf into $12-6 a pound product.

Especially if you addict the customers so much they buy 25 pounds at a whack.

Flavorings cost money.

Inflation adjusted, FDA graded leaf is likely cheaper than any time in history.

Another strange fact.

All the rolling papers and all the tubes I’ve seen are imported from Europe (home of cigarette papers for hundreds of years) or Canada.

The papers are a third more expensive than the big, bulky tubes with a filter.

It’s likely demand. Weed smokers use a little pack of papers while I’ll burn through a five pack of a thousand tubes a month and never miss a payment.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

Inspired by briar lee’s posts, I tried a couple of RYO “pipe tobaccos”. I tried smoking them off and on for a while, and I can’t stand them. Part of the problem is the toppings they use— to imitate the commercial cigarette taste. But the real problem is an underlying bitter nastiness. I don’t know if the explanation is what Sig said above or something else , but there’s a real harshness. This is from someone whose daily smoke is mostly whole leaf Kentucky burley

Is the harshness possibly from it being young tobacco?

I haven't experimented with curing and all, but you have.

 

[Pypkė]

I doubt Kentucky’s Best or Rouse have the chemists and labs and capital to custom make their own HTML. They probably sell the scraps to the majors.

Wind River Tobacco Company makes the Kentucky Select. They also market another "premium" brand, The Good Stuff, which is claimed to have "...no additives or preservatives."

 

[makhorkasmoker]

Is the harshness possibly from it being young tobacco?

I haven't experimented with curing and all, but you have.

If by “young” you mean minimally aged, I guess it’s possible, but I’ve had mine jarred for a year at least and so far as I can tell, it’s as bad as it ever was

 

[Briar Lee]

Is the harshness possibly from it being young tobacco?

I haven't experimented with curing and all, but you have.

Note on burning—

In a tube cigarette the RYO ribbon cut tobaccos (if the correct moisture) make perfect cigarettes.

Milder and less nicotine than a tailor made, but good.

To smoke in a pipe you can’t pack them too tight. Try your normal pack and they’ll roast your mouth.

 

[NookersTheCat]

I've never suspected that any of the ryo tobacco blends were tobacco paper... It might make them better for making cigarettes if they were.

IMO the satisfaction felt from a factory made homogenized cigarette can't be matched by any ryo brand.

Show me a brand that is homogenized and I'll buy it and try it out.

I've always felt this way as well. I've always been a social smoker when it came to ciggies but to me there was no comparing a pipe baccy RYO or American Spirit to a Camel, Marlb, etc. And I've tried.

Sure, the RYO will probably smoke longer and even have better quality tobacco... but between the long, (usually) hard draw and supercharged nicotine level, I find nothing enjoyable about those aspects.

The best I could come close with was the rare few shag cut pipe tobaccos like Kendal Gold... but for my usage level and preference, factory made cigs are ones I want to deal with. The (even rarer to find) "made for RYO" tobacco is 2nd best. I think these are the few products that they still make with the proper types of cut and leaf and additive in order to give a true experience.

But again, I go through barely more than 1-2 packs in the time span of a year anymore so.. I fully accept that I am an odd duck...
I'm glad that there's quality inexpensive multi-use tobacco on the market again that others enjoy. If only we could get back to that with the brands that started it like Prince Albert... but taxes keep that down. I'm honestly surprised the govt has allowed these loophole brands to go on as long as they have already.

 

[BriaronBoerum]

I bought a pack of Lucky Filters when I was waiting to see the Corpse Flower (bad enough to be the only smoker in a line of thousands without being so Scottish as to smoke 75 cent a pack RYO) and they had more nicotine but I was really glad to get back home to my Buoy Golds.

And how was the Corpse Flower? It's funny how they've become such popular attractions at botanical gardens, they're the plant equivalent of "baby, pull my finger!"

 

[Briar Lee]

And how was the Corpse Flower? It's funny how they've become such popular attractions at botanical gardens, they're the plant equivalent of "baby, pull my finger!"

The attraction of the Corpse Flower is to women with a man to escort them to see it, with her kids.

Me and one other old man were the only geezers there, and his wife was much younger, too.

They had a live feed on the corpse flower so the woman could call the grandparents and see the kids get their photo taken beside the thing. You don’t have to stand in line.

Any teenagers old enough to escape seeing it weren’t there.

The arboretums get a new generation of future visitors each time one blooms

 

[NookersTheCat]

Its one reason why mechanically rolled cigars are affordable. Swisher and Phillies are man made tobacco sheet for the outer layer at least. And phillies may use the scrap from the cutting of the outer wrapper as filler too.

Also a legal distinction. That is why all those brands of filtered "little cigars" are able to be sold for only $13.99/carton online vs $93.99/carton cigs in stores... also why they are allowed to be flavored still. Because they are cigarettes in every way except the wrap. They are not wrapped in paper, they are wrapped in homogenized tobacco (paper made out of tobacco leaf instead of wood pulp) which makes them cigars (wrapped in tobacco = legally a cigar).

This was why Djarums changed. Back when flavored cigarettes were legal they were wrapped in black paper. Once they made flavoring cigarettes illegal (apart from very specific grandfathered casing recipes) they switched them to black colored homogenized tobacco paper and started calling them Djarum Clove Little Cigars instead of Djarum Clove Cigarettes. At least in the good ole "Land of the Free"... ymmv in regions with more personal liberty...

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

You are welcome to smoke all the bargain pipe tobacco you wish. At somewhere around $.75 per bowl with a bowl taking 1 to 1 1/2 hours of my time to smoke, I am not concerned over $.65 but I am very concerned about the enjoyment I receive for the hour or more of my time.

 

[Briar Lee]

Also a legal distinction. That is why all those brands of filtered "little cigars" are able to be sold for only $13.99/carton online vs $93.99/carton cigs in stores... also why they are allowed to be flavored still. Because they are cigarettes in every way except the wrap. They are not wrapped in paper, they are wrapped in homogenized tobacco (paper made out of tobacco leaf instead of wood pulp) which makes them cigars (wrapped in tobacco = legally a cigar).

This was why Djarums changed. Back when flavored cigarettes were legal they were wrapped in black paper. Once they made flavoring cigarettes illegal (apart from very specific grandfathered casing recipes) they switched them to black colored homogenized tobacco paper and started calling them Djarum Clove Little Cigars instead of Djarum Clove Cigarettes. At least in the good ole "Land of the Free"... ymmv in regions with more personal liberty...

More lawyering .

When you read Class A cigarretes on a package that means they contain 3 pounds or less tobacco per thousand. The current federal tax on Class A cigarettes is .99 cents a pack.

Years ago there were jumbo sized cigarettes that contained more than three pounds of tobacco per thousand, Class B, and taxed double Class A

And until about 1960 or so all the popular cigarettes such as Camels and Luckies and Chesterfields were all tobacco, and about three pounds per thousand, even for the short 70mm regulars.

After the development of HTML the makers found they could spray flavorings in the manufactured tobacco and fluff up the real tobacco and gradually cut down the count to about two pounds per thousand—-where except for American Spirit and perhaps Pall Mall Straight Kings, they all remain two pounds per thousand today.

Big Tobacco pays a lot of lobbiests and owns politicians of both parties.

So in the economic crisis of early 2009 Big Tobacco agreed to a 99 cent a package tax on their product, provided little cigars were taxed the same as was cigarette tobacco per gram equivalent.

That is why Buoy Gold is labeled pipe tobacco, taxed at $2.83 a pound instead of $25 a pound.

And little cigars are all now a shade over three pounds of tobacco per thousand taxed at half the wholesale cost, as large cigars.

 

[Pypkė]

Sometimes its nice to be the guy in room smoking down a bowl of prince albert or half and half, and enjoying it.

then being a pretentious waffle smoking a bowl taken from a 30$ tin.. who doesnt enjoy it. but still smokes it because "its expensive" or "the forums say its real wonderful"

That was uncalled for...