Charatan's Make 483DC Perfection Question

[pappymac]

Working on some more estate pipes and the first one up is this Charatan's Make 483DC. Unlike the other Charatan's Make pipes I have, this one doesn't have the L inside a circle like the Lane Era Charatans. Hopefully Ken Burns will see this and provide what information he can.

 

[donjgiles]

From Pipedia

Charatan records indicate the DC (Double Comfort) bit was introduced in the 50’s, but some report seeing them in earlier production. Still others indicate they were introduced by Lane in 1960.

The Lane Trademark serif and circled L indicates the pipe is from the “Lane Era” (approx. 1955 to 1979 -1984?), however it appears that both the English factory or Lane themselves sometimes, or perhaps even often forget to stamp the L on a pipe. The Charatan factory was known for inconsistencies, especially in stampings. Therefore, although an L on the pipe definitely defines it as a Lane Era pipe, the lack of it could simply mean the pipe missed receiving the stamp from the factory. The lack of the trademark could also mean the pipe was destined for the European market.

 

[kenbarnes]

Hello pappymac
whilst Ken 'Burns' with passion for pipes & pipe-making my name is actually Barnes
This 483 DC (The Cavalier) has, at some point, had the mouthpiece replaced. In the 1960s Herman Lane realised that a Charatan pipe he was replacing for a customer in New York was actually not sold through him. Many US smokers were coming to London and buying their Charatans as the prices were substantially less. In this case the smoker bought the pipe in London and expected Herman Lane to replace it, when in fact it was the factory or shop's responsibility to replace it. So Herman decided to stamp all Charatans he bought for the US market with the 'L' stamp. From that point, all pipes ordered for the US market were stamped L so he could differentiate whether it was his responsibility to replace a pipe or someone else's. This system also worked well the other way around when customers insisted that they bought a pipe from the shop in Jermyn Street when it had an 'L' stamp.

 

[pappymac]

Hello pappymac
whilst Ken 'Burns' with passion for pipes & pipe-making my name is actually Barnes
This 483 DC (The Cavalier) has, at some point, had the mouthpiece replaced. In the 1960s Herman Lane realised that a Charatan pipe he was replacing for a customer in New York was actually not sold through him. Many US smokers were coming to London and buying their Charatans as the prices were substantially less. In this case the smoker bought the pipe in London and expected Herman Lane to replace it, when in fact it was the factory or shop's responsibility to replace it. So Herman decided to stamp all Charatans he bought for the US market with the 'L' stamp. From that point, all pipes ordered for the US market were stamped L so he could differentiate whether it was his responsibility to replace a pipe or someone else's. This system also worked well the other way around when customers insisted that they bought a pipe from the shop in Jermyn Street when it had an 'L' stamp.

Thank you Ken Barnes and my apologies for getting your name wrong. I was wondering about the shape name as it didn’t really fit the shape of a bent Dublin in my opinion. So, it was either made before Lane started putting the L on it or it was sold in England. Interesting.

 

[jguss]

From Pipedia

Charatan records indicate the DC (Double Comfort) bit was introduced in the 50’s, but some report seeing them in earlier production. Still others indicate they were introduced by Lane in 1960.

Don, I’ve often wondered about the source of the various statements dating the DC. The only thing I’ve seen in black and white puts it a number of years later, and I’d appreciate any documentation to the contrary. Perhaps Ken could chime in on this one, and offer insight on the degree to which the introduction of the DC predated the application for patent protection. Certainly stems with 203573 stamped on them can’t have been created and sold before the number was issued.

Jon

 

[kenbarnes]

Don, I’ve often wondered about the source of the various statements dating the DC. The only thing I’ve seen in black and white puts it a number of years later, and I’d appreciate any documentation to the contrary. Perhaps Ken could chime in on this one, and offer insight on the degree to which the introduction of the DC predated the application for patent protection. Certainly stems with 203573 stamped on them can’t have been created and sold before the number was issued.

Jon

A few weeks ago, I was privileged to clean up the very first Charatan 'Freeshape' that was made at Charatan by Barry Jones when he was 17 years old. The pipe was really admired by Reuben and it became the game-changer for Charatan,.Barry started working for Reuben Charatan in 1959 when he was 15, this pipe was made in 1961. Barry said that the DC mouthpiece it has was fitted in 1964 (possibly early 1964) which was in the first batch that came to the factory. Barry recalls William Williamson-Barling (double-barrelled surname), who worked at Charatan after Reuben's death and after the sale of Barling, came with Dennis Marshall and a few other pipe-makers from the Barling factory in early 1963. The design of the Double Comfort mouthpiece was one of his first assignments. I did meet William Williamson-Barling once in 1967 when I went to the factory for the first time (I was 13).
I have found a few inconsistencies regarding 'eras' and other Charatan info on Pipedia and elsewhere and one article by Ivy Ryan is, in my opinion, dubious. I have just read that this has been noted by Pipedia. I have also seen information like 'the factory moved to Grosvenor Street' which Barry and I cannot work out. Possibly someone got this from the factory Charatan owned called Grosvenor Pipes which was in Georgiana Street, Camden Town, London? Grosvenor Pipes was the small factory/workshop where I worked when I was 17. This was where the bulk of the Ben Wade machinery was housed after the Leeds factory was closed and it was where the fitting was carried out for all the pipes that Charatan produced.

 

[donjgiles]

Ken,

Thank you Sir!

 

[jguss]

A few weeks ago, I was privileged to clean up the very first Charatan 'Freeshape' that was made at Charatan by Barry Jones when he was 17 years old. The pipe was really admired by Reuben and it became the game-changer for Charatan,.Barry started working for Reuben Charatan in 1959 when he was 15, this pipe was made in 1961. Barry said that the DC mouthpiece it has was fitted in 1964 (possibly early 1964) which was in the first batch that came to the factory. Barry recalls William Williamson-Barling (double-barrelled surname), who worked at Charatan after Reuben's death and after the sale of Barling, came with Dennis Marshall and a few other pipe-makers from the Barling factory in early 1963. The design of the Double Comfort mouthpiece was one of his first assignments. I did meet William Williamson-Barling once in 1967 when I went to the factory for the first time (I was 13).
I have found a few inconsistencies regarding 'eras' and other Charatan info on Pipedia and elsewhere and one article by Ivy Ryan is, in my opinion, dubious. I have just read that this has been noted by Pipedia. I have also seen information like 'the factory moved to Grosvenor Street' which Barry and I cannot work out. Possibly someone got this from the factory Charatan owned called Grosvenor Pipes which was in Georgiana Street, Camden Town, London? Grosvenor Pipes was the small factory/workshop where I worked when I was 17. This was where the bulk of the Ben Wade machinery was housed after the Leeds factory was closed and it was where the fitting was carried out for all the pipes that Charatan produced.

Ken,

Thank you for your response. As always, your firsthand account provides valuable insight into what actually happened at the company. I read this as consistent with the Nov 1964 date of the DC patent application, and pretty compelling evidence that the statements that the DC was introduced years earlier are without foundation.

Jon

 

[kenbarnes]

Thank you for your response. As always, your firsthand account provides valuable insight into what actually happened at the company. I read this as consistent with the Nov 1964 date of the DC patent application, and pretty compelling evidence that the statements that the DC was introduced years earlier are without foundation.

Jon

My father told me that the DC mouthpiece was Herman Lane's idea, which he had during, what I call, the 'Esther era'. Recently, Barry recounted the day Reuben died in early 1962. During the lunch hour, Reuben was working at his sanding wheel when he had a heart attack and died. Barry was playing darts in the cafeteria upstairs. He was called and came down stairs. He went to the office and phoned the doctor and then Mr Lewington, the manager at the Charatan shop in Whitcomb Street. Esther Charatan just happened to be at the shop at the time and immediately took a taxi to the factory . She was so 'rushed' that she forgot to pay the taxi driver and Barry went down and paid him with his own money! That afternoon Barry and Johnny Mahoney were wondering whether they come to work in the morning and telephoned Mr Lewington. He said they need to carry on as normal. When I knew Mr Lewington between 1967-1970 (approx) he was in charge of the accounts at the factory. Such a lovely man, a true gentle man and very loyal to Charatan. Charatan made a long-shanked Bulldog shape called Lewington to commemorate him. When Barry told me this story 8 weeks ago, I thought 'what a great way to die - at his sanding bench, making pipes'.

 

[jguss]

My father told me that the DC mouthpiece was Herman Lane's idea, which he had during, what I call, the 'Esther era'. Recently, Barry recounted the day Reuben died in early 1962. During the lunch hour, Reuben was working at his sanding wheel when he had a heart attack and died. Barry was playing darts in the cafeteria upstairs. He was called and came down stairs. He went to the office and phoned the doctor and then Mr Lewington, the manager at the Charatan shop in Whitcomb Street. Esther Charatan just happened to be at the shop at the time and immediately took a taxi to the factory . She was so 'rushed' that she forgot to pay the taxi driver and Barry went down and paid him with his own money! That afternoon Barry and Johnny Mahoney were wondering whether they come to work in the morning and telephoned Mr Lewington. He said they need to carry on as normal. When I knew Mr Lewington between 1967-1970 (approx) he was in charge of the accounts at the factory. Such a lovely man, a true gentle man and very loyal to Charatan. Charatan made a long-shanked Bulldog shape called Lewington to commemorate him. When Barry told me this story 8 weeks ago, I thought 'what a great way to die - at his sanding bench, making pipes'.

Ken, what a terrific story. Sad, but honestly also inspirational. And a good illustration of the value of direct oral testimony. It provides the "color" generally lacking in more formal recountings of events. As an illustration, below is the trade obit printed in Tobacco after Reuben died. Facts yes, color no. Best, Jon

 

[georged]

In a perfect world, Ken Barnes would be paid a million dollars (pounds?) to stop whatever he's up to these days and spend a month with someone who was passionate and knowledgeable about pipes, was an excellent writer, and "clicked" with Ken on a social/personal level. (Same sense of humor & etc.)

Many hours of written notes and audio recordings would result.

In the year following that month, the treasure-trove of information would be distilled into expertly-written, engaging, book-length narrative form.

At the same time, a small squad of expert photographer-detectives would track down all the noteworthy Charatan pipes that had been mentioned/referenced, and capture them on film.

The text and photos would then be blended into a book. Absolute state-of-the-art reproduction/printing methods used throughout, premium quality paper, etc.

A billionaire pipe lover would then buy up the entire stock of books and send a copy free of charge to anyone on Earth who asked for one.

In our all-too-imperfect world? His dropping in on this forum from time to time will have to do. And it comes pretty close.

 

[snagstangl]

I agree with George on this whole heartedly. But the amount of info Kennedy (Ken) Barnes has provided is priceless.

I was reading in The Illistrated History of the Pipe yesterday about Upshall and it mentions that Ken Barnes had passed away, twice I recall. It did not mention Kennedy Barnes. I checked my Pipes Artisans and Tradmarks book and it only mentions Col Kenneth Barnes. The fact Kennedy Barnes is not specifically included in both is nearly criminal.

 

[Kottan]

Don, I’ve often wondered about the source of the various statements dating the DC. The only thing I’ve seen in black and white puts it a number of years later, and I’d appreciate any documentation to the contrary. Perhaps Ken could chime in on this one, and offer insight on the degree to which the introduction of the DC predated the application for patent protection. Certainly stems with 203573 stamped on them can’t have been created and sold before the number was issued.

Jon

*

Don, I’ve often wondered about the source of the various statements dating the DC. The only thing I’ve seen in black and white puts it a number of years later, and I’d appreciate any documentation to the contrary. Perhaps Ken could chime in on this one, and offer insight on the degree to which the introduction of the DC predated the application for patent protection. Certainly stems with 203573 stamped on them can’t have been created and sold before the number was issued.

Jon

Yes, in the context with Charatan, Reuben, Lane, etc., especialy in articles of Pipedia, are stated so much incorrect or contrary facts, that it is nearly impossible to get a consistant history of the firm. Nobody knows where the authors got their Informations and if they (the informartions) are true and applicable. This makes dating of Charatan pipes so dificult. (or should I say “a matter of luck”?).

Pipedia is probably the first adress where pipe lovers look for informations on a brand they are interested in. There I read e.g. in the article of Fabio Ferrara that Reuben died in 1960, (a false date we now know), wherefore his entire dating schema, which is based on the time periods the respective owners ran the firm, starts shifting.

Another Charatan history on pipedia says, that Herman Lane’s heirs (!) sold the firm to Dunhill in 1976.

Here are 2 links prooving that Herman Lane was alive a little bit longer

BUSINESS PEOPLE; LANE LTD. GETS OUTSIDER; Lane, A Tobacco Maker, Places Outsider at Helm - https://www.nytimes.com/1982/08/05/business/business-people-lane-ltd-gets-outsider-lane-tobacco-maker-places-outsider-helm.html



Look at the first entry



https://*www.ancestry.de/search/categories/bmd_death/?name=Herman+G_Lane

Also Herman Lane worked together with the Danish pipemaker Preben Holm from 1971 till 1984. Preben himself wrote this in his biography 1984, 5 years before he died at the age of 42. He made wonderful freehand pipes for Lane’s Ben Wade label, which were sold in the US. So Herman Lane was still active in the pipe buisiness after he said “Good bye Charatan” and I wonder why he sold Charatan just to Dunhill?