Charatan Size and Shapes Observation/Question

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philairfoil

Starting to Get Obsessed
Mar 24, 2017
154
164
I bought this size 1 Dublin on the bay a while back...It's too small for me. These are the pics from the previous seller.

10199

10200
I dunno if I'm breaking a rule here, but...PM if you like.
 
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pappymac

Lifer
Feb 26, 2015
3,294
4,327
I'm getting ready to take a look at three Charatan's. I have been told the numbers stamped on them are:

213
348
and 317 (which have been X'ed out).

Any suggestions on what else I should be looking for when I have the pipes in hand?
 

donjgiles

Lifer
Apr 14, 2018
1,571
2,523
If they are x'ed out, it sounds like they are from the period of the Dunhill buyout. It seems Dunhill went a little crazy with X's during that time period.
 

donjgiles

Lifer
Apr 14, 2018
1,571
2,523
Here are a pair I have, it shows the distinct size differences between eras...

18546759-orig.jpg
 

davidintexas

Part of the Furniture Now
Jun 4, 2013
675
210
Don, even your backseat smokers are beautiful works of art. My goodness you find the grain!. Edit edit.....got drool all over the letters. They smeared a bit
 
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pappymac

Lifer
Feb 26, 2015
3,294
4,327
One of the pipes is a Charatan Executive with a "L" inside a circle leading me to believe it's a Lane Era Charatan (1958-1965). If I'm wrong, I welcome a correction. Interestingly, it doesn't say Charatan Make but does say "Made by Hand" on the right side of the stem.
 
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Saintwilliam

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 26, 2019
213
317
Here are a pair I have, it shows the distinct size differences between eras...

18546759-orig.jpg
i see “special” on the smaller tapered stem pipe.
I have looked and looked but just can’t find anything said about a “special” grade pipe. Only Supreme, Selected, Belvedere.

Do you know anything about that grade?

also, is that smaller pipe a Reuben era or first Lane?
 

Saintwilliam

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 26, 2019
213
317
The special grade existed in the1951 catalogue.I have had pipes stamped special from the mid 1960's
https://pipedia.org/images/3/37/CHARATAN_1951.pdf
Thanks this is helpful, so literally the middle grade pipe.


Also,
I have read that the tapered stem was available as a special request during the Lane era, were these a common occurance? Or is it pretty reliable that tapered stems are Reuben? Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this question. I’ll gladly open a separate one if need be.

thanks.
 

kenbarnes

Can't Leave
Nov 12, 2015
441
374
Strictly speaking, this thread is not for pipes other than Charatan but I need to try to attach pictures and I am trying to attach a pipe that I made and finished last week to blend in with the previous pipe pic from lucilucius.... and it works!

DSC07595.JPG
 

Saintwilliam

Starting to Get Obsessed
Sep 26, 2019
213
317
Oh that one is old! There no apostrophe in the Charatan’s as far as I can tell... mythic.

But what does Ken have say? lol
 

Kottan

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 5, 2020
508
1,329
Frankfurt am Main, Germany
If they are x'ed out, it sounds like they are from the period of the Dunhill buyout. It seems Dunhill went a little crazy with X's during that time period.
This is my first post here. I'm a german collector and recently I bought a Special Dublin 391 DC on which the complete first line (Charatan's ...) is x'ed out. Who, why and when did this? I then thought it was a replacement by Charatan due to their warranty. Do you or anybody here the exact reason?
 

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  • Charatan Dublin Special 391DC (Lane Era).jpg
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  • Charatan Garantie.jpg
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mikestanley

Lifer
May 10, 2009
1,698
1,126
Akron area of Ohio
This is my first post here. I'm a german collector and recently I bought a Special Dublin 391 DC on which the complete first line (Charatan's ...) is x'ed out. Who, why and when did this? I then thought it was a replacement by Charatan due to their warranty. Do you or anybody here the exact reason?

Apparently. when Dunhill bought Charatan, they used that to identify the old stock left over, that they did not produce. The lower grades were x'd like yours and, although I've never seen one, the higher grades were spared, using a single, larger X. I understand they were sold at a discount and not covered by warranty.
Mike S. Also, welcome!
 

Kottan

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 5, 2020
508
1,329
Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Apparently. when Dunhill bought Charatan, they used that to identify the old stock left over, that they did not produce. The lower grades were x'd like yours and, although I've never seen one, the higher grades were spared, using a single, larger X. I understand they were sold at a discount and not covered by warranty.
Mike S. Also, welcome!
Thank you Mike for this info and the warm welcome. Inever heard or read about this Dunhill action. I bought my first Charatan in 1976/77 (a small 210 DC Belvedere) not knowing at that time, that Charatan was already sold to Dunhill. I still have the pipe, which must be one of the latest that was produced by the original Charatan crew and sold before the "x-factor" occurred.
 

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    20200407_152720.jpg
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Kottan

Part of the Furniture Now
Apr 5, 2020
508
1,329
Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Apparently. when Dunhill bought Charatan, they used that to identify the old stock left over, that they did not produce. The lower grades were x'd like yours and, although I've never seen one, the higher grades were spared, using a single, larger X. I understand they were sold at a discount and not covered by warranty.
Mike S. Also, welcome!
Hello Mike
a seller on ebay was so kind to post a picture of page #98 of Richard Hacker's book 'Rare Smoke', where he (Hacker) explains the x'd out Charatan markings. Saying.... it was Lane Ltd. who did this (on approx 800 pipes they still kept in their stock) for the industry trade show in Chicago 1988. Then they were sold out at a substantial discount as you said.

If Hacker is right my x'd Charatan would have been kept (unsold) in Lane's stock for at least 8 years, because the CP-Logo on its (original) stem is definitely from the period before 1980 when the C still enters the P. (Same thing with the x'd out pipe from the guy who posted the scanned Hacker page #98).

Seeing the ominous looking x-stampings on the pipes many people believed that Charatan would no longer make pipes, Hacker writes. However, he had visìted the London factory in 1989, where he had discovered (sic!) that Charatan pipes were still produced.
I hope, no one had told Hacker that since 1989 Charatan pipes were manufacrured in France, and he quits writing fairytales.
Hacker Rare Smoke Pg 98.jpg
 
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