Charatan Pipe – Something Smells Fishy

[greatbrittn]

So, I got this pretty little pipe for a decent price, but upon closer inspection were the words "Not For Resale" stamped on the right side of the shank that were not visible during the auction pictures (even though the seller did show an image of this side of the pipe). There's also a patent number to the right of the Charatan's Make etc, but usually those are on the right of the shank from what I've read. I know there are some fake Charatan's out there and I'm thinking I've found one of them, or am I mistaken? Any thoughts? I added some pictures as well.

 

[captainsousie]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Not For Resale pipes were ones sent as a warranty replacement. That's just my unreliable memory though. Doesn't look like a fake to me.

 

[daimyo]

I don't know if there was ever door to door pipe salesmen but old sales display models are often marked like this. ^This also makes sense.

 

[greatbrittn]

Both of you make some valid observations. I just saw that and haven't read about the Not for Resale bit, but captainsousie's explanation makes sense, as does yours daimyo.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

Just buff that part out and carry on, lol
They look nice. I am interested in the responses.

 

[captainsousie]

Good thought daimyo. Now I'm curious so I hope somebody here has a definitive answer.

 

[greatbrittn]

The seller just responded to me:

I did a little reading up on this before I put it up for sale, im having trouble finding the exact post (it was in a forum) but some collectors think that it was stamped when the pipe was given to an employee as a gift. Like i said, it was an estate pipe and this was a VERY nice house, with a TON of pipes (some marked a couple hundred dollars). Quite possible the original owner worked for them.

That also seems plausible as well.

 

[sablebrush52]

Bingo! Several of the great old London Houses had this policy for pipes that were given to employees. Generally these pipes are "seconds". Sometimes you also find strike outs stamped over the nomenclature. Charatan used an asterisk shaped stamp.

 

[ssjones]

I'd say that is a somewhat rare Charatan (I can't recall seeing one in the past few years).
This might give you some insight:

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/lane-era-charatan-selected-fh-by-mr-charatan

Stamping: CHARATAN'S MAKE, LONDON ENGLAND, SELECTED, FH, L(in a circle) and NOT FOR RESALE. This pipe was handmade for the owner by Mr Charatan himself while the owner watched him, thus the NOT FOR RESALE stamp.

I say definitely don't buff that off!

 

[greatbrittn]

Thanks for the help sablebrush52 and ssjones! Wow, that would be pretty incredible if this was actually made by Mr. Charatan.

 

[misterlowercase]

Cool pipe!
Looks like an outsize billiard,

is it a big 'ol billiard?
What is the pat. no.?
I'm clueless about Charatan, but your pipe could be a Reubens era, although I doubt he carved it.
This pipedia.org page is quite comprehensive, maybe it'll help...

http://pipedia.org/wiki/Dating_of_Charatans
Also, you could inquire with the International Charatan Collectors Society, I'm sure they know what's what regarding this particular topic,

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/pipe-collecting/international-charatan-collectors-society/
Dennis Congos invited questions...

If anyone has questions, I am happy to answer as best I can. Feel free to email me at dcongos@mail.ucf edu
I'd say those pipes are fairly uncommon, pretty cool!

 

[greatbrittn]

Looks like an outsize billiard,

is it a big 'ol billiard?
What is the pat. no.?

Here's a picture of the bowl. It's a beautiful pipe, that's for sure. The stem needs some love though. The patent number appears to say 65. I can clearly make out the 6, but the other number is either a 5 or another 6.

 

[settersbrace]

Fantastic grain. Starting to appear you fell into a good one.

 

[greatbrittn]

Fantastic grain. Starting to appear you fell into a good one.

Yeah, it would seem so. I just wanted to make sure that it was legit when I saw that Not For Resale on the right side because I hadn't come across anything describing that.

 

[topd]

First of all, welcome to the forum greatbrittn.... We're always pleased to have new members.
I wouldn't do anything to that pipe except clean it up and smoke it.... Enjoy

 

[greatbrittn]

First of all, welcome to the forum greatbrittn.... We're always pleased to have new members.
I wouldn't do anything to that pipe except clean it up and smoke it.... Enjoy

That is the plan, TopD. Thank you for the welcome!

 

[neverbend]

Hi Brittney,
Every company has a policy regarding pipes that are given away or for those that are warranty replacements even it it seems like no policy at all.
Looks like you have a lovely Charatan (love the patina) that was either a gift or a replacement (if it was made prior to the Lane era). I'd disagree about buffing the nomenclature off because the value of the pipe isn't diminished and it's more rare because of this marking.
Charatan, in the Lane era, marked pipes with an 'X' to indicate that the pipe was a warranty replacement. The wording on some companies warranties were something like, 'once a pipe is so given (replacement) it can not be given again', and some sort of mark was needed to enforce this policy.
Il Ceppo used (still?) "for friends" on pipes that were given as gifts.
James Upshall intentionally declined marking their pipes (at least during Kennedy Barnes tenure) when given as gifts or as replacements because he didn't want to devalue them to the recipient and they extended the warranty even on the replacement (lifetime against burnout or manufacturing defect).
Oddly, your nomenclature insures that it's genuine because no counterfeiter in their right mind would add this to any pipe. Enjoy your pipe!

 

[mso489]

It's a strange turn of mind that would stamp a pipe, or any object of intrinsic value, with Not for Resale.

Maybe it should say Destroy the Pipe on the Death of the Owner. Like the dump trucks with the sign on

the back that says Stay Back 200 Feet, to beg off paying for broken windshields when you can't read the

sign at 200 feet and can't stay with traffic if you did. I don't know what the pipe stamp should have been,

but it shouldn't say that. It's a fine pipe, and the absurdist stamp makes it even more interesting. It's

a tribute to the irrational belief in the magical power of anything in writing.

 

[neverbend]

Like the dump trucks with the sign on

the back that says Stay Back 200 Feet, to beg off paying for broken windshields when you can't read the

sign at 200 feet and can't stay with traffic if you did.

Very funny!
Gum and candy manufacturers do much the same when they print, 'Not For Re-Sale' on their multiple packs, mainly to prevent retailers from re-selling them (they cost less per piece). Of course it's not stamped on the gum.
Dunhill is famous for dating their pipes but that was warranty related. Nichols numbers on Barlings (I believe) were devised to know where the pipe was sold (which distributor was responsible for warranty obligations).
Once the pipe is sold the only way that the manufacturer can track them is with nomenclature but I agree that Charatan could have been more succinct.

 

[dmcmtk]

I would say the "Patent Number", is actually a shape number. Does the stem have any remnant markings? Looking at the cut of the saddle, the stem may be a replacement. It does look like a very nice pipe!