Changing Times?

[jimbo]

When I was a boy, Texas and the South were still segregated. Not just the schools but also many businesses.
With cafes and restaurants, the white folks used the front door and the black folks used the back door. There was usually a table or two set up in an unused corner of the kitchen for the black folks to dine.
As far as I know, they ordered off the same menu, used the same plates, and paid the same prices as the white folks out front.
Today we can “cluck, cluck” and shake our heads at the way we were back then, but is it different now??
SMOKERS DON’T EVEN HAVE A TABLE IN THE KITCHEN!
Smokers are the new outcasts.
We’d better fix this and pronto.

 

[hessenland]

Any ideas?

 

[cortezattic]

Blacks have had no choice in the matter of being different, and had to wait for social attitudes to change.

Smokers OTOH are ostracized because smoke irritates others (real or imagined); and we can refrain for the sake of courtesy and civility.

However we should not be forced to refrain in situations that do not violate courtesies and civility.

That's my 2¢ worth.

 

[schmitzbitz]

Agree with Cortez; just got to say it would be nice if the more vehement anti's would extend the same courtesy and civility to us (smokers) that we show for non-smokers. Really, explaining to me that you have a smoke allergy (or any other underlying reason as to why you wish me to put my pipe out) is going to get one much, much further than coming over with rage in your eyes, and fake coughs eminating, to berate me for partaking in my vice of choice.

 

[expatpipe]

We gripe and moan about politicians all the time, and rightly so. But, the real culprits here in all anti smoking regs are trial lawyers in my op. Now would you really risk as an owner, even if the law says it is ok, to set aside a table for smokers when you could easily face a long and costly battle from an employee or patron? Sure you might win, but in the end you'd wind up broke anyway defending yourself. Trial Lawyers, first and foremost pushing the anti-smoking agenda.

 

[jimbo]

"Courtesy and civility", like charity, should come from the heart, not from the legislature.
The situation is not just about smoke... it's about freedom, taxes, power, acceptance... and smokers are getting the short end of the stick in all of them.

 

[yoru]

jimbo I'm just going to co-opt your words for myself if you consider them fair use :wink:
I am all for the codes of courtesy. I know my great-grandfather raised me on some rules of gentlemanly behavior long since abolished, but I firmly believe in most of them (a few were a bit. . .archaic. . .even for me) -- amongst the many is the belief if a man is asked not to light his pipe he refrains without a word of protest except in the case of it being his home, and even then the non-smoker should be deferred to unless there is good reason not to do so. I personally still believe tobacco should not be used (of any of its forms) in the presence of a lady unless she herself is partaking or is of sufficient age that her tolerance is sufficient to make it allowable. Hell I still catch myself going through the proper little "ritual" with my nasal snuff, even though my knowledge of the etiquette came long before my relatively recent acquisition of the hobby.
My point is, the same as what jimbo said, with more brevity and whit I think -- I have no problem whatsoever in chosing to respect non-smokers by not smoking around them. But that should be between me and them, not the law -- and a shopkeep should be allowed to say no smoking, but at the same time they should also be able to allow it. I'll even go so far as saying smoking facilities should have a little sign that reads "Smoking welcome!" with nice smiley face beside it holding a pipe. :puffpipe: this fellow would do.

 

[fred]

Yes, the concepts of civility and consideration are time honored hallmarks

of gentlemen and ladies. Too bad we don't see any reciprocation. Does

this mean that the anti-smoking crowd lacks these refinements of culture...?

I'd say that this is the case with many. They have lost a sense of what the

grace of living is about.

 

[gecko13]

I long for the days of walking up to the local pub and enjoying some scotch, a pipe, and good conversation. A simple pleasure, lost in times gone by.

 

[oldjazzlover]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you Gecko. Nothing goes better with a good drink than a good smoke!

 

[cornguy]

We seem to be living in the age of intolerance.

And this intolerance didn't manifest itself overnight. It developed over decades as the health risks associated with smoking became known.

It's the result of attitudes that have changed incrementally but significantly in the last 30 years, and if attitudes toward smoking change again it will take another 30 years.

There are times when I wish I could turn back the clock and fire up my pipe in a restaurant after a good meal, or puff away in the bleachers on a sunny day at the ballpark.

Those were simple pleasures that I enjoyed.

And now they're gone.

If they ever return it will be many years from now and by then I will likely be too old to enjoy them.

Attitudes change and solidify slowly. They shift by inches not feet, but over the years those inches become miles.

In the meantime, I'll smoke my MM cob in my house and in my yard.

In a way, I'm lucky. After all, I can still smoke when I go for a walk in my small town. In some places you can't even light up in a public park or on a sidewalk.

Remember the old service saying, "smoke 'em if you got 'em."?

Now it's "smoke 'em while you can."

 

[forsooth]

It is all part of the ever-advancing, liberty-consuming nanny state. It besmirches the memory of the brave men and women who sacrificed so much for our liberties.

 

[igloo]

Bah Humbug civility is what got us in this mess in the first place . I think Hank Williams Jr said it best . [IF you dont like the way Iam living , just leave this long haired country boy alone ]. I try to respect everyone and embrace our cultural differances, but some people and thier holier than thou attitudes are infinging on my rights ,my way of life , my culture ,my country,my eating habits ,my religion and my bank account . There are days I would like to take the attitude of do unto others then split . My vote no longer counts , my government no longer listens . Kinda makes it seem like Rome before the fall .I leave you with this .[ If you're afraid of the future, then get out of the way, stand aside. The people of this country are ready to move again.

Ronald Reagan ]

 

[jimbo]

Yes, I agree with yoru and cornguy. I learned MANY years ago that smoking annoys some people and still today, I rarely smoke in the presence of others. It has become a solitary hobby of mine. Do all the smoking bans (so far) affect me DIRECTLY? No, because I probably wouldn't be smoking in a restaurant anyway. BUT I know that the bans are just the camel's nose under the tent... soon they will get to be MORE restrictive (like smoking in your car or at home) and THAT impacts ME. (The anti-tobacco forces have already restricted my enjoyment of smoking with taxes, closing B&Ms and internet/mail order restrictions.)
So, yes, I can also identify with igloo that our civility has played a part in losing our enjoyment of smoking.
(Watch an old movie and you will see the men removing their hats if a lady enters the elevator! I remember being struck when I saw an older friend of mine remove his ball cap while conversing with a lady he knew in a supermarket aisle. We have lost a lot of our manners over the years.)

 

[brian64]

IMO, it should be completely up to the OWNER of the establishment (bar, restaurant, store, etc.). The marketplace would naturally take care of it...you'd end up with all 3 options: non-smoking, smoking only, and both together.
But that would be called a "free market"...and we all know that doesn't exist.
"It's the kingdom of the spiders, it's the empire of the ants. You need a permit to walk around downtown, you need a licence to dance." -- Warren Zevon, from the song "Life'll Kill Ya"

 

[marmal4de]

Life is a sexually transmitted disease, with a mortality rating of 100%.

​

-R.D. Laing​

 

[maduroman]

igloo, it was charlie daniels who uttered them words, comes from his song, long haired country boy. it, btw summs up the way i feel.