Cellaring - Original Tins or Mason Jars?

[64alex]

[So if you take out the Kingfisher tins, it’s only been 1 tin out of say 100.]
Thanks, this is the kind of info I was looking for and it would be interesting to see if it reflects the experience of other people who are keeping tobacco in tins rather than jarring. If 1% is the approximate failure rate than everyone one can make their own decisions based on their risk tolerance. For me with a 1% risk rate I would keep tobacco in tins as they are more convenient for space and weight savings as well as for easier recognition of baccy. I also for additional protection put additional aluminum tape seal and on this way there is really no smell detectable coming out from the boxes (which means the leakage with tins with aluminum tape should be minimal if any). The major risk in this case more than drying would be the rusting inside the tin but it looks minimal as %.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I ordered some 1 and 5 gallon mylar bags last night to put tins inside of for longer term aging.

 

[sablebrush52]

And of the vintage tins of Haddo's, 2000 thru 2005, that I bought, 60% were fouled. The large 1 lb tin from 2011 had corrosion, but I emptied it out before the contents went bad. The 8oz tin from 2013 was starting to discolor at the solder join. I have zero regrets about having opened the tins and jarred them. I suspect that some blends, like Haddo's and Bohemian Scandal, are more prone to causing tin failure.
It also depends on age. How does the percentage of failed tins change over time?

 

[artvandelay007]

I always leave in the tin unless I have reason to believe that particular tin or manufacturer has a tendency to fail.

 

[64alex]

[It also depends on age. How does the percentage of failed tins change over time?]
It also depends from the conditions they were stored. This is why I'd like to hear experience of tins purchased new and cellared from the same person. I think experience with tins purchased in the third market should not count as we don't know how they were stored (and I suspect many of them were not stored correctly which is why it looks a lot of negative experience comes from purchased tins in the third market).

 

[sablebrush52]

It also depends from the conditions they were stored. This is why I'd like to hear experience of tins purchased new and cellared from the same person. I think experience with tins purchased in the third market should not count as we don't know how they were stored (and I suspect many of them were not stored correctly which is why it looks a lot of negative experience comes from purchased tins in the third market).

Absolutely, a point that I've made any number of times, which is why I wrote that I'll be happy to pay $3-$4 bucks for a 1970's tin of 759, but no more than that. Buying on the secondary market is a complete and utter craps shoot. BTW, last November, at the WCPS, I bought two tins of Haddos, one was 2000 and the other was 2001, same seller who was selling from his personal cellar and had bought them new. One was beautiful, the other was completely shot to hell. Examination of the tins showed that they were of different make.
My biggest concern are the flat rectangular and square vacuum seal tins. No way the pressure is evenly distributed across the perimeter. These I'm sealing in Mylar. The round ones I suspect are better since the pressure of the seal can be evenly distributed around the perimeter. I'll probably seal them as well, or maybe not. I'll need to run the smell test on them after I've bagged the square and rectangular tins. Blends that rely on acid as a preservative, like St. Bruno, get jarred. McClelland used a high quality food grade tin and they have been remarkably good at resisting the acid so far, so I'm not concerned about them. Assuming that I don't get around to smoking them I'll probably be in the ground before they eventually succumb to the acid.

 

[jon11]

I think I’m going to use the aluminum tape around my vacuum sealed tins....why not? Anyone here do it and do you believe it will prevent leaky tins?

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

It's not a matter of if tins have a perfect seal or if they leak. They all leak. The question is, how much do they leak? When you read the details, sounds like the bigger problems are contaminated tobacco and tins rusting from the inside out. It's pretty clear if you intend to cellar a fair volume of tobacco over a long period of time, you're going to experience some "spoilage". If you take care in how you package the tobacco and store it in a dry, cool environment, that amount should be minimum.

 

[admiral]

Another thing to concern is how good you will jar these?

You need to keep conditions as sterile as possible when you transfer tobacco to jars.
I had cases when I open a big jar (approx. 2-3 years of age) in order to move the content to smaller jars.

Some leftovers were left for smoking and in few weeks some started to develop mold.
Also some of the tobacco that was jarred slightly moist seem also have the tendency to develop some mold.

Not much but few strains per handful of tobacco had some mold.
I have decided not to throw it away but carefully to remove the suspicious pieces and smoke up the rest.

 

[sablebrush52]

I have decided not to throw it away but carefully to remove the suspicious pieces and smoke up the rest.

Just so you realize that if you do this you will be smoking toxic mold. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not there.
I jar in small amounts for the most part, 4 and 8 oz jars. That way I can enjoy what I want and leave the rest. I do have some large jars for bulk storage and it's always possible that I'll regret that. But, I live in a very dry climate, sterilize every surface before jarring, and so far, have been pretty lucky in that I haven't had any mold yet, with the exception of C&D tins a couple of years ago.

 

[mrenglish]

The only tins I have that developed mold was from C&D. Knock on wood. They were not aged at all but within a few weeks of opening they developed mold. Our house is pretty dry and sometimes it is hard to keep my cigars at the right humidity.
I agree with Sable. If the tobacco hold gone moldy, it’s better to toss it all, even the jar it’s in if you repackaged it.

 

[lawdawg]

Admiral, you might want to clarify that what you are seeing is actually mold, and not the white "sugar crystals" that form on aged baccy, especially Virginias.

 

[admiral]

Not getting into that discussion mold or sugar crystals. If it goes slightly greenish or grey for me it is not good.
Sable - I do agree with you in general for the mold (apart from the toxic word). But it is a risk I knowingly took.
And moving the cellar in smaller jars is my main free time killer these days

Getting sick of cleaning, sterilizing and etc. in the last few weeks.

 

[sablebrush52]

Sable - I do agree with you in general for the mold (apart from the toxic word). But it is a risk I knowingly took.

A couple of years ago, when C&D had that disastrous release of the mold laden Carolina Red, JimInks and I were trying to decide whether to keep or return our tins. He called a fined of his who is a plant biologist and asked her about it. She told us to absolutely return them as the molds in tobacco are highly toxic and if visible in part of the tin then the rest is 100% guaranteed to be contaminated. Since then I did some research on it and every article I found indicated that the molds are quite toxic.

 

[admiral]

You had to go there, didn't you?

 

[brooklynpiper]

More and more it seems we should be spending the $1.29 for the jar . . .

 

[admiral]

Just for the record - I don't like Sable, Jim and their freaking biologist friend