Carl Jung and The Importance of Pipe Smoking

[Hillcrest]

I guess I'm saying "Take him seriously" as in others you mentioned as a thought leader for the ages, Peterson is just a bought and paid-for controlled op agent but hey that's just like my opinion man. But I can see how at this time he is a key player I just don't see him being as influential as the others you mentioned each of them jumping off each other's shoulders going back to Plato I mean I don't think we will be remembering "stand up straight and clean your room" several centuries from now as if it is as culturally significant as say The allegory of the cave. Peterson is a flash in the pan smooth-talking con man riding on Jung's coat tales all the way to the nuthouse I agree. Small Potatoes both in the long game of philosophy.

We all build on the foundations of those who came before us and thats fine. But look at the totality of someone's work before judging an individual theory. In Petersons case I see a man on a personal journey to find meaning in his own life. I discussed Jung before and he admitted he was possessed which is not the route I choose. Plato only had two successful students who became tyrants and killed their own people so he recanted his theories at the end of his life. If you didn't know that you might easily become a Platonist and say this is great ... without knowing the ultimate end result. I prefer theology to philosophy.

 

[Hillcrest]

big difference

I know the difference and chose accordingly. I'm not into occult crap. Jung had his own psychological problems. As I said at the beginning ... I'm not arguing ... just not my cup of tea. Enjoy your reading.

To get back to the original post though ... Why Habbakuk ?

 

[pipedreamin]

I know the difference and chose accordingly. I'm not into occult crap. Jung had his own psychological problems. As I said at the beginning ... I'm not arguing ... just not my cup of tea. Enjoy your reading.

To get back to the original post though ... Why Habbakuk ?

Not arguing, just discussing. You may have chosen demon, but Jung chose daimon, which Philemon epitomized for him. If passing judgement, that distinction is important. Habakkuk-- Jung apparently named many "inanimate" objects, maybe he smoked like a fish while doing his most intense wrestling with God?

 

[jerry]

Fascinating thread! I usually don’t think so deeply this early in the morning.

 

[Hillcrest]

Not arguing, just discussing. You may have chosen demon, but Jung chose daimon, which Philemon epitomized for him. If passing judgement, that distinction is important. Habakkuk-- Jung apparently named many "inanimate" objects, maybe he smoked like a fish while doing his most intense wrestling with God?

I am pretty sure I quoted a letter he wrote to friends and used his spelling but I will no longer srgue the point.
This article seems to indicate he named the tobacco pot; others online indicate a family history of seeing spirits. The article does not answer the question Why Habbakuk ? though. That would be an interesting answer if known.

Carl Gustav Jung: Pipe-Smoking Founder of Analytical Psychology | Smokingpipes.com

Learn more about Carl Gustav Jung, the pipe-smoking founder of Analytical Psychology.

www.smokingpipes.com

 

[pipedreamin]

I am pretty sure I quoted a letter he wrote to friends and used his spelling but I will no longer srgue the point.
This article seems to indicate he named the tobacco pot; others online indicate a family history of seeing spirits. The article does not answer the question Why Habbakuk ? though. That would be an interesting answer if known.

Carl Gustav Jung: Pipe-Smoking Founder of Analytical Psychology | Smokingpipes.com

Learn more about Carl Gustav Jung, the pipe-smoking founder of Analytical Psychology.

www.smokingpipes.com

I don't see it as arguing, we're discussing, want to argue about that?? I'd like to see the quote as I'm sure he was not claiming to be possessed by a "demon" and if that is what is said in your reference, I gather it is a mistranslation.

From the excerpt of his posthumously published MDR quoted in the SP article you linked: "The daimon of creativity has ruthlessly had its way with me. The ordinary undertakings I planned usually had the worst of it — though not always and not everywhere..." Is that your reference?

Jung's Memories, Dreams, Reflections is an engaging read, it gives a decent overview of his work and struggles but as Kingsley points out it's had some gritty truths polished over by those wishing to keep up the veneer of his scientific respectability. Kingsley is making the case he was much more prophet than scientist.

I feel the need to make the case for any here new to Jung. To paint him as a sex cult founder and anti-christian peddling "occult crap" wildly misses the mark. I believe anyone who reads his MDR will come away impressed with the man, what he's brought to light and accomplished. Given some thought, one would be a better person for doing so.

As for Habakkuk, do you have any thoughts on a correlation? Without knowing Jung it's quite a bit of speculation of course but if you're familiar with Habakkuk, any notion coming from that side of things?

 

[pipedreamin]

If you want to discuss it seriously HMU in the Dm's. I'm just having fun and certainly wouldn't want to bore anyone but ourselves with a public debate on the intellectual merits of either of them or us for that matter.

Aww, c'mon man, if others are bored there is the whole of the interwebs, have at it. Further thoughts?

 

[Hillcrest]

As for Habakkuk, do you have any thoughts on a correlation? Without knowing Jung it's quite a bit of speculation of course but if you're familiar with Habakkuk, any notion coming from that side of things?

I suspect its multi-layered and somewhat whimsical; perhaps he saw himself in the same position trying to find meaning for the great mysteries of life or read the quotes in Habbakuk and saw the smoke as an incense for praise, for shrouding, for ultimate cleansing of the mind etc. or perhaps he thought of himself like a god shrouded in smoke and fire... We will never truly know.

I feel the need to make the case for any here new to Jung. To paint him as a sex cult founder and anti-christian peddling "occult crap" wildly misses the mark. I believe anyone who reads his MDR will come away impressed with the man, what he's brought to light and accomplished. Given some thought, one would be a better person for doing so.

It was just my opinion based on what I read ... one opinion out of 9+Billion available. I suspect he overcame alot (family history of what appears to be mental illness) to come up with theories to help people and they probably do help those who do not have alternative methods or theories to assist them. He's obviously praised for his achievements by those in that field.

 

[pipedreamin]

It was just my opinion based on what I read ... one opinion out of 9+Billion available. I suspect he overcame alot (family history of what appears to be mental illness) to come up with theories to help people and they probably do help those who do not have alternative methods or theories to assist them. He's obviously praised for his achievements by those in that field.

I'm going to quote you from above because I think it's an important point, with all due respect: "But look at the totality of someone's work before judging an individual theory" I understand that Jung is not your guy, and you're not overly familiar but I trust if you read his work you'd find that what he is saying lies at the very core of what all religions are trying to point to. Religions are not God, they are all fingers that attempt to point a way to It. Jung's "work" is another finger, for a different time. All agree, the seeking, is the important part. Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven, Jung was indeed ardently doing just that.

 

[Hillcrest]

I'm going to quote you from above because I think it's an important point, with all due respect: "But look at the totality of someone's work before judging an individual theory" I understand that Jung is not your guy, and you're not overly familiar but I trust if you read his work you'd find that what he is saying lies at the very core of what all religions are trying to point to. Religions are not God, they are all fingers that attempt to point a way to It. Jung's "work" is another finger, for a different time. All agree, the seeking, is the important part. Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven, Jung was indeed ardently doing just that.

I'd have to read more to verify if what you say has any validity. From what I read he was trying to replace christianity with his own religion. But, I would hope you are right and my interpretation wrong. I have found that most people who criticize Christianity have no clue what it actually is and says and their comments prove that. ie: the Peterson video you referenced above. By the way there is a later one called I am no longer an atheist. As I said before to each his own ... we are all on our pwn journey and at different points along the way with different abilities so you are right that it is unfair to compare. If I did that I apologize.

 

[Sobrbiker]

Cool excerpts, thanks for sharing those.
I used to fancy myself an intellectual and student of theology, but having almost died of alcoholism in my late twenties I found that (for me) intellectualizing spirituality had been barring me from grace.
This is only really germane to the topic, because what truly led me to being able to functionally embrace being a “spiritual being in search of a human experience” was a crusty old codger telling me one day “look kid, there’s only two things you need to know about god: 1) there is one, and 2) you ain’t it”.
This is pertinent as while I’m not a student of Jung, it was his work with alcoholics that brought forth to those that later founded AA the principle that a spiritual belief/psychic change sufficient to displace the ego was key to long term recovery.

I’m just a simple guy putting one foot in front of the other trying to improve my relationship with god and my fellows every day, what I do may not be for you.
I shall ruminate on such as I get to my first bowl of the day.

 

[Servant King]

Religions are not God

I couldn't agree more. People always equate the two, but this demonstrates a misunderstanding of what the word means. It's defined as strictness in fidelity to any code(s) of conduct. The prefix "re-" is again or anew, "ligio" is Latin, meaning "to bind." So...to re-bind...well, that could be anything! It could involve God or not, it could involve a god or not (a god, as opposed to The God...big difference!). At the place I lived previously, the local golf club was everyone's religion. There was a strictness in conforming to the rules/codes of conduct. Nothing to do with theology in the slightest, and judging from how eager they all were to hold meetings and do work on the Sabbath, I can say this with yet more certainty.

...they are all fingers that attempt to point a way to It.

I couldn't disagree more. They are all there to point away from God, not to Him, hence the aforementioned "re" prefix. It's a binding to something else, something different from our original binding to the Law as living beings. All religions are creatures of the State, not of God, and the Scripture is peppered with warnings regarding the following of the commandments of men over the commandments of the Creator. That's probably why the word "religion" is only in there a grand total of two times!

All that said, I'm not nearly as well-versed on Jung as I probably should be. Wilhelm Reich quotes Jung often, and he's one of my all time favorites in that field. I'm fairly inspired to get up to snuff on him, so I'm grateful to this thread!

 

[kcghost]

This emphasizes again that psychiatrists are having great fun at our expense. They are a cabal of crazy cats. And religion is its own funny world. In use by the common man, it is a great source of comfort and solace. As soon as some guy says let's build a church is when things go south.

 

[telescopes]

s a fellow pipe enthusiast, I found the discussion on American factory pipes quite interesting. While I do appreciate the craftsmanship of handmade pipes, I also understand the appeal of factory pipes, especially when it comes to affordability and consistency.

I think it's great that there are options for both handmade and factory pipes, as it allows pipe smokers with different preferences and budgets to enjoy the hobby. It's also fascinating to see the different techniques and processes used by different pipe makers and factories, and how they can influence the final product.

Personally, I have a few factory pipes in my collection that I really enjoy smoking, and I appreciate the convenience of being able to buy a pipe without having to wait for a custom order. However, I also have a deep appreciation for the artistry and individuality of handmade pipes, and I think they have a special place in the world of pipe smoking.

Overall, I think it's important to keep an open mind and not get too caught up in the debate between handmade and factory pipes. At the end of the day, what matters most is that we enjoy our pipes and the tobacco we smoke in them.

 

[burleybreath]

I think of religion as a decaying corpse, oozing from every evidentiary and logical orifice. Ugly image? You bet.

 

[Searock Fan]

Peterson, however, does make for some great meme gruel:

What a long winded, pseudo intellectual load of crap about nothing. Is he serious?

 

[pipedreamin]

I couldn't disagree more. They are all there to point away from God, not to Him, hence the aforementioned "re" prefix. It's a binding to something else, something different from our original binding to the Law as living beings. All religions are creatures of the State, not of God, and the Scripture is peppered with warnings regarding the following of the commandments of men over the commandments of the Creator. That's probably why the word "religion" is only in there a grand total of two times!

I'd phonetically parsed it out as re-group, or the literal re-bind, which is not unlike Jung's alchemical notion of Individuation, a merging of opposites in the soul, the modern version of "I and the Father are one." Jesus did mention that "we" (yet to see this "we") will do greater works... I like to think, with good reason, the door isn't closed to "discourse" with God, however that takes place.
On the other hand regarding religion, I'd have to say, if I were satan, the first psy-op I'd orchestrate as a divisive measure would be to create religions. The word in itself and its intent, believed by adherents, is to bring one to God, re-bind to God but after an assessment of its outcomes one wonders...

I spent 9 years in a Catholic school where pedophile priests, sadistic nuns incorporated peddled a pasteurized, processed god-like product that any 12 year old could see was a sham. This is the church/religion that so many rail against, it has nothing to do with God.

 

[pipedreamin]

s a fellow pipe enthusiast, I found the discussion on American factory pipes quite interesting. While I do appreciate the craftsmanship of handmade pipes, I also understand the appeal of factory pipes, especially when it comes to affordability and consistency.

I think it's great that there are options for both handmade and factory pipes, as it allows pipe smokers with different preferences and budgets to enjoy the hobby. It's also fascinating to see the different techniques and processes used by different pipe makers and factories, and how they can influence the final product.

Personally, I have a few factory pipes in my collection that I really enjoy smoking, and I appreciate the convenience of being able to buy a pipe without having to wait for a custom order. However, I also have a deep appreciation for the artistry and individuality of handmade pipes, and I think they have a special place in the world of pipe smoking.

Overall, I think it's important to keep an open mind and not get too caught up in the debate between handmade and factory pipes. At the end of the day, what matters most is that we enjoy our pipes and the tobacco we smoke in them.

Give me a while to work out the symbolism and its hidden meaning, I know it's here, I can feel it!

 

[telescopes]

Give me a while to work out the symbolism and its hidden meaning, I know it's here, I can feel it!

LOL. Not sure how that post got put into this thread. I meant to delete it but got distracted.

 

[brian64]

I'd phonetically parsed it out as re-group, or the literal re-bind, which is not unlike Jung's alchemical notion of Individuation, a merging of opposites in the soul, the modern version of "I and the Father are one." Jesus did mention that "we" (yet to see this "we") will do greater works... I like to think, with good reason, the door isn't closed to "discourse" with God, however that takes place.
On the other hand regarding religion, I'd have to say, if I were satan, the first psy-op I'd orchestrate as a divisive measure would be to create religions. The word in itself and its intent, believed by adherents, is to bring one to God, re-bind to God but after an assessment of its outcomes one wonders...

I spent 9 years in a Catholic school where pedophile priests, sadistic nuns incorporated peddled a pasteurized, processed god-like product that any 12 year old could see was a sham. This is the church/religion that so many rail against, it has nothing to do with God.

All human systems/organizations, no matter how well they begin, become corrupt to one degree or another due to fallen human nature...and typically the greater the power and wealth, the greater the corruption.

The corruption in any modern organized religion is the same corruption Jesus railed against the Pharisees and temple money changers about. And however much corruption there is in any religious organization, there is just as much in the so-called scientific establishment...and its adherents are just as blind and in denial about it as people are to their religious organizations.