Carl Jung and The Importance of Pipe Smoking

[pipedreamin]

Been reading Kingsley's Catafalque: Carl Jung and the End of Humanity, great insightful read if you're interested in Jung and have an idea of his thought. It may sound bleak but it isn't. Came across this and thought it apropos for the clan here:

And the footnotes:


Habakkuk/Tobacco-- not too dissimilar in sound but Jung also had an affinity for the Prophet who was notorious for arguing with God.

 

[Hillcrest]

"...for some unaccountable reason bore the name Habbakuk..." -

Very interesting mystery in that name and why it was chosen. Jung's life work seems to have been answering the same questions asked by Habbakuk, an interesting book of the bible which attempts to explain why bad things happen if there is a good God and there are many references in it to other parts of the Bible regarding smoke: from incense used in praise; to God surrounded by Smoke and fire; to cleansing fire at the end of time. It could take years to solve the mystery of that name and its significance to Carl Jung and then again to his grandfather ... unfortunately Jung rejected Christianity for the occult and psychoanalysis unlike Habbakuk who chose to trust God's plans even if he didn't understand them.

 

[pipedreamin]

Yes, Jung's Answer to Job addressed similar questions to the righteous rantings of Habakkuk IIRC, though it's been quite a while since reading it. Probably not a stretch to say Jung rejected the tenets of "corporate" Christianity but I reckon he'd get on swimmingly with the Christ. Kingsley, taking Jung at his word, makes the case that he was indeed a prophet who refused to identify with the archetype, holding the "not mine but Thine" stance despite the internal war that raged in him. He tapped the original source and brought the material to the world in an acceptable language of the day, as did Parmenides long before him, in the true prophetic tradition. Interesting stuff.

 

[vosBghos]

"...for some unaccountable reason bore the name Habbakuk..." -

Very interesting mystery in that name and why it was chosen. Jung's life work seems to have been answering the same questions asked by Habbakuk, an interesting book of the bible which attempts to explain why bad things happen if there is a good God and there are many references in it to other parts of the Bible regarding smoke: from incense used in praise; to God surrounded by Smoke and fire; to cleansing fire at the end of time. It could take years to solve the mystery of that name and its significance to Carl Jung and then again to his grandfather ... unfortunately Jung rejected Christianity for the occult and psychoanalysis unlike Habbakuk who chose to trust God's plans even if he didn't understand them.

A great thread is beginning to sprout especially this, in light of Jordan Peterson and his myopic devotion to Jung and both's failure to concede to the mystery school beyond all mystery schools. The very worst of Jung's devotees is Peterson for though he waxes his word salad oh so poetically he would surely fail at pouring piss out of a boot even with the instructions on how to do so plainly written on its heel.

 

[K.E. Powell]

A great thread is beginning to sprout especially this, in light of Jordan Peterson and his myopic devotion to Jung and both's failure to concede to the mystery school beyond all mystery schools. The very worst of Jung's devotees is Peterson for though he waxes his word salad oh so poetically he would surely fail at pouring piss out of a boot even with the instructions on how to do so plainly written on its heel.

Peterson, however, does make for some great meme gruel:

 

[Jacob74]

Evidently Dr. Jung was a Granger man.

 

[pipedreamin]

A great thread is beginning to sprout especially this, in light of Jordan Peterson and his myopic devotion to Jung and both's failure to concede to the mystery school beyond all mystery schools. The very worst of Jung's devotees is Peterson for though he waxes his word salad oh so poetically he would surely fail at pouring piss out of a boot even with the instructions on how to do so plainly written on its heel.

I don't think Jung missed the Mystery, he was conspiring with it to bring across the threshold what was in his capacity to deliver.

Apparently there is a select few to whom Peterson is helpful and I leave it at that. If what he has to say floats one's boat, moves one forward in one's development, great. For those who've evolved past the need, why bother funding those suits?

 

[Hillcrest]

Kingsley, taking Jung at his word, makes the case that he was indeed a prophet who refused to identify with the archetype, holding the "not mine but Thine" stance despite the internal war that raged in him. He tapped the original source and brought the material to the world in an acceptable language of the day, as did Parmenides long before him, in the true prophetic tradition. Interesting stuff.

I am not well read on this and haven't read the book you're reading but Carl Jung admitted that he was possessed and his 2nd personality was the demon he named Philemon amongst others with whom he communed who gave him his ideas especially about replacing christianity with a sex occult and psychoanalysis religion. He was also a rabid anti-catholic who misqouted scripture and doctrine to make his points. To be polite; not my cup of tea.

 

[Hillcrest]

A great thread is beginning to sprout especially this, in light of Jordan Peterson and his myopic devotion to Jung and both's failure to concede to the mystery school beyond all mystery schools. The very worst of Jung's devotees is Peterson for though he waxes his word salad oh so poetically he would surely fail at pouring piss out of a boot even with the instructions on how to do so plainly written on its heel.

Peterson is not anti-christian as Jung was and has in fact expressed a belief in God.

 

[mso489]

I had a friend who went to Switzerland to train at the Jung institute after already earning a Ph.D. in psychology from a major university in the U.S. A strange household Carl had, very unconventional in a European way.

I like his observations on pipe smoking, especially since I have a round pipe rack with a tobacco jar inherited from my paternal grandfather through my dad. It bolsters the idea that we all dip from the common myth, or in this case, his patient and I do.

 

[vosBghos]

I don't think Jung missed the Mystery, he was conspiring with it to bring across the threshold what was in his capacity to deliver.

Apparently there is a select few to whom Peterson is helpful and I leave it at that. If what he has to say floats one's boat, moves one forward in one's development, great. For those who've evolved past the need, why bother funding those suits?

If you want to discuss it seriously HMU in the Dm's. I'm just having fun and certainly wouldn't want to bore anyone but ourselves with a public debate on the intellectual merits of either of them or us for that matter.

 

[vosBghos]

Peterson is not anti-christian as Jung was and has in fact expressed a belief in God.

So I take it you have seen the Sam Harris interview when he asks him straight up "Do you believe in God?" I mean it's pretty laughable. That is all I'm saying I thought with your avatar you would get where I'm coming from, I didn't know JP would be a hot topic when discussing Jung whom we should actually take seriously.

 

[vosBghos]

I am not well read on this and haven't read the book you're reading but Carl Jung admitted that he was possessed and his 2nd personality was the demon he named Philemon amongst others with whom he communed who gave him his ideas especially about replacing christianity with a sex occult and psychoanalysis religion. He was also a rabid anti-catholic who misqouted scripture and doctrine to make his points. To be polite; not my cup of tea.

very interesting indeed

 

[Hillcrest]

So I take it you have seen the Sam Harris interview when he asks him straight up "Do you believe in God?" I mean it's pretty laughable. That is all I'm saying I thought with your avatar you would get where I'm coming from, I didn't know JP would be a hot topic when discussing Jung whom we should actually take seriously.

I would never take Jung seriously; I think he was a nutcase but to each his own. You should be aware he recanted some of his theories later in life and may have even repented but we will never know for sure. A friend of his brought him a priest near the end (???). Peterson has recanted some of his theories as well as did Plato and Freud. But again I am not well read on the complexities of their theories as I never found them of interest. I only know what I read and heard so I am not arguing just stating what little I know.

 

[Hillcrest]

So I take it you have seen the Sam Harris interview when he asks him straight up "Do you believe in God?" I mean it's pretty laughable. That is all I'm saying I thought with your avatar you would get where I'm coming from, I didn't know JP would be a hot topic when discussing Jung whom we should actually take seriously.

I don't know if I have seen that or not as I am not a follower of his just watched a few lectures out of curiosity. I know when he had his health problems he changed his attitude. I believe I heard his wife and daughter converted to catholicism around that time but am not positive about that without checking.

 

[vosBghos]

I would never take Jung seriously; I think he was a nutcase but to each his own. You should be aware he recanted some of his theories later in life and may have even repented but we will never know for sure. A friend of his brought him a priest near the end (???). Peterson has recanted some of his theories as well as did Plato and Freud. But again I am not well read on the complexities of their theories as I never found them of interest. I only know what I read and heard so I am not arguing just stating what little I know.

I guess I'm saying "Take him seriously" as in others you mentioned as a thought leader for the ages, Peterson is just a bought and paid-for controlled op agent but hey that's just like my opinion man. But I can see how at this time he is a key player I just don't see him being as influential as the others you mentioned each of them jumping off each other's shoulders going back to Plato I mean I don't think we will be remembering "stand up straight and clean your room" several centuries from now as if it is as culturally significant as say The allegory of the cave. Peterson is a flash in the pan smooth-talking con man riding on Jung's coat tales all the way to the nuthouse I agree. Small Potatoes both in the long game of philosophy.

 

[BCF]

Baltimore's Cedric Mullins hit for the cycle Friday night, just sayin'...

 

[hawky454]

Very cool, I might have to pick up that book. I’ll do some shopping around though, it’s $46 for the paperback on Amazon right now.

 

[brian64]

Jung is fascinating. From a Christian perspective, I would say much of his insights are useful but obviously not entirely compatible.

But Christendom, at least in the West, has deemphasized so much of the mystical that Jung's material is something people attempt to fill that void with.

And from a scientific perspective, western "establishment" science has essentially nothing whatsoever to say about consciousness...so Jung certainly fills a void there.

 

[pipedreamin]

I am not well read on this and haven't read the book you're reading but Carl Jung admitted that he was possessed and his 2nd personality was the demon he named Philemon amongst others with whom he communed who gave him his ideas especially about replacing christianity with a sex occult and psychoanalysis religion. He was also a rabid anti-catholic who misqouted scripture and doctrine to make his points. To be polite; not my cup of tea.

Daimon, not demon, big difference: "Daimon or Daemon (Ancient Greek: δαίμων, "god", "godlike", "power", "fate") originally referred to a lesser deity or guiding spirit such as the daimons of ancient Greek religion and mythology and of later Hellenistic religion and philosophy. The word is derived from Proto-Indo-European daimon "provider, divider (of fortunes or destinies)," from the root *da- "to divide". Daimons were possibly seen as the souls of men of the golden age acting as tutelary deities, according to entry δαίμων at Liddell & Scott. See also daimonic: a religious, philosophical, literary and psychological concept."

Working my way through his collected works, 5 of those under wraps along with his autobiography, many anthologies over the decades, published works by "Jungians," I can assure you, Jung is grossly misrepresented by your summary.