British 'Dark-Fired Virginia'

[F4RM3R]

This thread is awesome. Thanks for the info and the book reference (already in the reading queue for tonight). So, to see if I've got this straight: when GH write "Dark fired VA," they mean the same thing other blenders mean when they write "Dark Fired Kentucky"?

GH have some incredibly confusing blend descriptions, like this one for one of my favorites: "Scotch Mixture is comprised of Brazilian, Zimbabwe and Malawi Virginia (53%) which are blended with Malawi sun cured (10%), and Malawi burley (17%). The relatively high proportion of burley helps to carry the special Virginia casing which sweetens and flavors the blend. To this we then add a small proportion of black cavendished dark fired (7.5%) to cool the smoke, and finally the latakia (12.5%)". What in the hell is cavendished dark fired? Just baked DFK? That would be like roasting a pork shoulder after it sat in the smoker all night...

Glad you are enjoying the thread, it's an interesting topic. While dark fired va and dark kentucky are both virginias, they still could be different varieties, which have different characteriaics and flavours. (More floral or earthy or sweet or whatever). Similar yes, but the same maybe not.

Yes you can have a dark fired Cavendish. I've done it myself as I use whole leaf and definitely like dark fired kentucky. Ive also stoved it and made Cavendish. Totally possible. The stoving mellows things out and changes the taste, losing the earthy, nutty flavours to more of a bbq, chocolate kinda smokyness and eventually really smooths things out. I prefer to stove my kentucky when using alot of it in a blend, or will use a smaller amount unstoved as it has a more alkaline potency to it. If it's a Cavendish then usually some sugar will be added before stoving as the kentucky on its own isn't super sweet.

 

[mingc]

7 CFR § 30.37 - Class 2; fire-cured types and groups.

www.law.cornell.edu

I had no idea that the US Code of Federal Regulations contained classifications to tobacco. I should have known better; there are laws about everything here.

 

[karam]

Thank you all for insightful posts!

I had a question, mostly out of curiosity.

You’ll find malawi, dark fired Virginias, and what is sometimes called African Dark leaf in many Gawith creations from ropes to flakes, and adds it’s distinctive flavors to Dark Flake unscented to 1792.
It is a favorite of mine. It adds a full body cigarish note to a blend, but slightly plummy with a tang.

Love 1792, and have Lakeland Dark on order as I understand it's the same blend as 1792 but without the tonka bean.

So...

They kinda mean the same thing. Fire cured VA might not be identical to fire cured KY. The tobacco may have slight difference, and the wood used might also be different. Not saying they are. I haven't had the opportunity to compare.

Glad you are enjoying the thread, it's an interesting topic. While dark fired va and dark kentucky are both virginias, they still could be different varieties, which have different characteriaics and flavours. (More floral or earthy or sweet or whatever). Similar yes, but the same maybe not.

None of the Gawith blends with Dark Fired-something, or fire-cured-other give me anything tasting like Old Dark Fired - which I take is aimed at highlighting the Dark Fired Kentucky, or a Toscano cigar (100% Dark Fired Kentucky from the US, the wrapper, and Italy, the filler, Dark Fired Milan? :P), or Motzek's Dark Twist which is 50% Dark Fired Kentucky and 50% Perique.

The taste I associated with DFK is oak wood, sweet and sour BBQ sauce, and more wood, all of which can be found in the non-Gawith blends featuring DFK I've tried. The Gawiths seem to me to have none of the above, instead they have more of a spicy and cigarish quality.

Maybe it's all academic!

 

[rajangan]

Thank you all for insightful posts!

I had a question, mostly out of curiosity.



Love 1792, and have Lakeland Dark on order as I understand it's the same blend as 1792 but without the tonka bean.

So...





None of the Gawith blends with Dark Fired-something, or fire-cured-other give me anything tasting like Old Dark Fired - which I take is aimed at highlighting the Dark Fired Kentucky, or a Toscano cigar (100% Dark Fired Kentucky from the US, the wrapper, and Italy, the filler, Dark Fired Milan? :P), or Motzek's Dark Twist which is 50% Dark Fired Kentucky and 50% Perique.

The taste I associated with DFK is oak wood, sweet and sour BBQ sauce, and more wood, all of which can be found in the non-Gawith blends featuring DFK I've tried. The Gawiths seem to me to have none of the above, instead they have more of a spicy and cigarish quality.

Maybe it's all academic!

I figure the different fire cured tobaccos would taste differently. I never thought toscano tasted anything like the oaky WLT dark fire Virginia which I bought years ago. My friend has whatever the fire cured leaf is now and he's been rolling what he calls a toscano copy, so maybe the current stock is KY.?

Are you saying they use American tobacco? I know dark fire is a local crop in Italy.

In Mexico, Casa Turrent has fire cured cigar filler. I didn't really notice until I was told. But now it's obvious.

 

[karam]

I figure the different fire cured tobaccos would taste differently. I never thought toscano tasted anything like the oaky WLT dark fire Virginia which I bought years ago. My friend has whatever the fire cured leaf is now and he's been rolling what he calls a toscano copy, so maybe the current stock is KY.?

Are you saying they use American tobacco? I know dark fire is a local crop in Italy.

In Mexico, Casa Turrent has fire cured cigar filler. I didn't really notice until I was told. But now it's obvious.

It's confusing and inconsistent: according to Wikipedia " The tobacco, which is used as filler, is a blend of Italian traditionally-grown Kentucky and North American Kentucky. ", however this site suggests Toscanos are made with 100% Italian-grown tobacco.

My only measure is Motzek's Dark Twist, to me it has a lot of similarities with Toscano cigars.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Between sauces added to case blends, and the way companies keep their language used for the various leafs used cryptic, it’s no wonder why we think everything we read as “dark fired” or “fire cured” as being a Fire Cured Kentucky. We know more about the American Fire cured Kentucky because of romatic pictures of those smokey barns and writings. You can even download exactly what woods, temperatures, and process to make it. It’s as easy as a Google search. But, we know little about fire cured American Virginia, or Molawi, or even African Virginias in general. Heck, I’ve always heard about the Italian, but little beyond a tag on a box of cigars.
But, there seems to be a long standing process, but we’ve seen the dangers of keeping a process a secret. If all Fire Cured Kentucky places died out tomorrow, someome could start doing it easily again somewhere else in America. But just look at what happened to Syrian Latakia... there is a problem with not sharing a process. It also hinders the evolution of tobacco. It stifles someone from trying to fire cure new strains, maybe derivatives of the basic oriental leaves.

But, it’s what we have, and it explains why everyone thinks Dark Fired Kentucky is in so many blends across the planet. Because it’s what we know.

 

[rajangan]

This year I fire cured a Canadian bright leaf variety and an East Timor variety of unknown classification. I also sun cured, flue cured, and air cured the same tobaccos. I'm also attempting an andullo style cure of the East Timor variety.

I think the variety will very much expand the blending options.

 

[Ahi Ka]

I figure the different fire cured tobaccos would taste differently. I never thought toscano tasted anything like the oaky WLT dark fire Virginia which I bought years ago. My friend has whatever the fire cured leaf is now and he's been rolling what he calls a toscano copy, so maybe the current stock is KY.?

Are you saying they use American tobacco? I know dark fire is a local crop in Italy.

In Mexico, Casa Turrent has fire cured cigar filler. I didn't really notice until I was told. But now it's obvious.

Current stock is labelled dark fired Tennessee. Super sweet and smokey, like an H&P sauce. Easily eats ODF for breakfast, flavour wise, unless you’re after that leatheriness

 

[Country Bladesmith]

Yes you can have a dark fired Cavendish. I've done it myself as I use whole leaf and definitely like dark fired kentucky. Ive also stoved it and made Cavendish. Totally possible. The stoving mellows things out and changes the taste, losing the earthy, nutty flavours to more of a bbq, chocolate kinda smokyness and eventually really smooths things out.

I think this is basically what happens with the hot pressing of MacBaren’s Old Dark Fired, but perhaps to a lesser extent.