Briar Pipe price vs quality
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From a production standpoint, the cheaper you plan to sell something, the faster you have to produce it and at the lowest cost.
So how that translates to pipes is, to make a $20 basket pipe that the manufacturer sells for $10, with $3-$5 of material in it, he has to make the things FAST, and be willing to compromise. That $20 pipe may smoke great if everything works out, but the fit and finish will be low. If the drilling is way off or there is a huge pit in the side, the pipe is still going to market because there isn't room to cull pipes because of imperfections. Some manufacturers are better at putting more attention to details into a cheap pipe, so if you can hand pick, or if you just get lucky, some of these pipes can smoke just fine. The stem will be very basic, no hand work or refinements to it, but it may (or may not) be pretty awful.
This basic tradeoff exists all the way up the line, with more room for hand work as the price/profit goes up. The more expensive a pipe is the more the manufacturer has the option for hand work, culling bad pipes and adding steps the cheaper pipe producers just dont have the option to do. Now, the ability to add more detail and attention to a pipe doesn't guarantee they will do it, just that the ability to becomes an option.
For my money, I'd say Dr. Grabow makes a fine under $100 pipe. After that you'd want to get into the $100-$150 factory produced stuff, or hand finished by guys like Chris Askwith, Wayne Teipen or Trevor Talbert.
For a 100% hand made pipe with hand cut (comfortable, durable, well engineered) stem, you are going to spend $250 at a bare minimum probably more like $300. There aren't really exceptions to this except for very new carvers, and then there isn't a guarantee the quality is up to snuff though you will get an individuals artistic expression and that can be worth something over a factory pipe.
So how that translates to pipes is, to make a $20 basket pipe that the manufacturer sells for $10, with $3-$5 of material in it, he has to make the things FAST, and be willing to compromise. That $20 pipe may smoke great if everything works out, but the fit and finish will be low. If the drilling is way off or there is a huge pit in the side, the pipe is still going to market because there isn't room to cull pipes because of imperfections. Some manufacturers are better at putting more attention to details into a cheap pipe, so if you can hand pick, or if you just get lucky, some of these pipes can smoke just fine. The stem will be very basic, no hand work or refinements to it, but it may (or may not) be pretty awful.
This basic tradeoff exists all the way up the line, with more room for hand work as the price/profit goes up. The more expensive a pipe is the more the manufacturer has the option for hand work, culling bad pipes and adding steps the cheaper pipe producers just dont have the option to do. Now, the ability to add more detail and attention to a pipe doesn't guarantee they will do it, just that the ability to becomes an option.
For my money, I'd say Dr. Grabow makes a fine under $100 pipe. After that you'd want to get into the $100-$150 factory produced stuff, or hand finished by guys like Chris Askwith, Wayne Teipen or Trevor Talbert.
For a 100% hand made pipe with hand cut (comfortable, durable, well engineered) stem, you are going to spend $250 at a bare minimum probably more like $300. There aren't really exceptions to this except for very new carvers, and then there isn't a guarantee the quality is up to snuff though you will get an individuals artistic expression and that can be worth something over a factory pipe.
lonestar, I think you are correct on the principles but there are some counter points. Because factory pipes are done to the same specs for thousands of pipes, often the work shops get things right on a regular basis. There are some stinker pipes, but since they don't have to reinvent and re-evaluate much, the product can be surprisingly uniform and good. And this quality increases when you step from low price to medium price pipes like Savs and Stanwells. Then you add pipes made in intense pipe cultures like St. Claude, France, and you can get incredible consistency in quality, design, drilling and finish. Many new pipes in the $65 to $85 range are functionally far better than their price points, in my experience. I don't always expect that, but I am often surprised. If a pipe smoker has the discretionary income to buy $300, $600, $800 pipes, that's to their credit. But anyone who thinks they are consigned to mediocre smoking because they buy pipes on a budget needn't feel that way. Good pipes can be had a moderate prices. Add the benefits of sales, discounts, estate pipes, flea markets and antique stores and what you can find is happily encouraging. +1 on Grabows; I recommend the Royalton line, a little more money, but better stems and finish, all for under $40 last I looked.
No.
What about at $200?
No.
$300?
No.
$500?
No.
$1000?
No.
$2000?
No.
$5000?
No.
Well then at what price level am I guaranteed a great pipe?
At no price level.
Great pipes occur at all price points, but there's no guarantee that any pipe made by anyone will be a great pipe. One of my favorites is an estate Ehrlich billiard that I picked up for $2, and one of my most disappointing was a Barling Canadian that cost me a LOT more.
Though bad pipes are rare, the odds of getting a better smoker improve above the $130 mark for a new pipe, because there is enough margin in the making of it to meet a minimal amount of care in its manufacture. If you're looking for a comfortable bit then be prepared to pay more for a well executed hand cut stem and bit.
As for performance, it's 25% equipment and 75% technique. In other words, it's just like sex.
Very generally, modern factories carve pipes and then sort the results afterward based on what carving reveals. Those with the clearest grain and fewest sandpits will be reserved for special quality finishing which may include hand made stems, higher quality machine made stems or silver fittings, decorations, etc.
It depends on too many factors. If you provide a few examples you'll get some real feedback. Generally, higher priced pipes require more labor to produce and one hopes this will result in greater attention to detail. The proof is in the pudding, as they say. In my experience, which I imagine is atypical, the pipes I paid the most for are amongst the worst in my collection.
$5, $79, $169, $250, $700
Cob, Briarworks Classic, Buckeye pipe,"friend price" for an artisan pipe (not all artisan's are created equal) and Asteriou. If I had to do it all over again, this is where I would start. Keep in mind estate pipes don't play fair.
There's already been plenty of expert answers to you question, but here is a picture that I think may add something. The pipe in the front is $120 Savinelli Venere and the one in the back is $50 Stanwell Brushed Black. They both smoke really well for me, but I pick up the Stanwell more often just because I don't worry about dropping it or losing it as much as I would the Savinelli. So which would you be more inclined to buy? The Sav is definitely a better looking pipe in terms of grain and finish. That's what I paid extra for. The Stanwell was more of practical purchase.
We don't disagree on that at all MSO. The opposite is also true, lots more money doesn't mean its lots more better. My argument was just that more money means the factory or artist has the *ability* to tweak more of the tiny details as the price point goes up, not that they actually will :D Most of the factories are good at making pipes or the market alone would have taken them out long ago. The fact that they are fast and efficient means they can offer good work at exceptional prices compared to one guy making one pipe at a time. The guy making one pipe at a time has the advantage that he can craft each pipe to exacting tolerance using techniques that aren't applicable to mass production, and producing a pipe of very high standards. But only at a price point far above the fast efficient factory with cadres of well trained automotons .
I am offended Sir. I DO guarantee you will like my pipe, or I will buy it back ! I've only had to do that once in 500 or so pipes, I would probably change the offer if it became habitual :lol:
All respectable answers !
Wow talk about information overload...After reading all the comments I'm more unsure than ever...I think what I need to do is find a good B&M so that I can have a chance to inspect the exact pipe that I am going to buy...
Also to respond to scarface
Lol there is no way in hell a squire can compare to 67 Fender....
Actually...Squier is the chinese division of Fender, so a Squier strat is exactly the same pattern as a Fender strat, the difference is that there is almost no quality control, so if you are good friends with the guys at your local guitar shop, and they carry a lot of Squier strats, it is worthwhile to play them all, you really can find some that are just as nice as a brand new Fender Strat. The '67 fender I was talking about was a coronado ii. It was valuable mostly because it is really cool looking (they used a fast growing wood and injected dye into the tree as it grew to make really cool grain patterns), and they didn't make a lot of them...they didn't make a lot of them cause they suck...
Also to respond to scarface
Lol there is no way in hell a squire can compare to 67 Fender....
Actually...Squier is the chinese division of Fender, so a Squier strat is exactly the same pattern as a Fender strat, the difference is that there is almost no quality control, so if you are good friends with the guys at your local guitar shop, and they carry a lot of Squier strats, it is worthwhile to play them all, you really can find some that are just as nice as a brand new Fender Strat. The '67 fender I was talking about was a coronado ii. It was valuable mostly because it is really cool looking (they used a fast growing wood and injected dye into the tree as it grew to make really cool grain patterns), and they didn't make a lot of them...they didn't make a lot of them cause they suck...
Absolutely.
I was also going to throw in some caution about buying Petes sight unseen: Under $200 they almost certainly will have fills. (Don't get me wrong; I love Peterson's!) Sometimes they are minute, and in places you'd not notice them. But other times they might be larger and in a spot your eye hits every time you look at it! To some, that makes no difference, but to me, it's a deal breaker. And you get to really see the grain. Most importantly, you get to heft the pipe. If you put the bit between two fingers and let it hang, you'll get some proxy as to how it'll feel in your mouth. Does the bowl look right from all angles. Etc. Etc.
Enjoy your search! Where do you live? Maybe someone can point you to a good spot.
Music:
I seriously started piping eight years ago when I quit the nails. I knew I needed a stable of pipes and didn't want to break the bank getting there. I very quickly decided that I didn't give a rip about smoking a dead man's burner and, just as importantly, name brand production pipes are always great but why not try their seconds?
Here's a great website that guided me: http://www.pipes.org/wp-content/uploads/Articles/Seconds.html
As to the page itself, I take exception with the Savinelli Estella being a second. Full stop. That's just horseshit. Ditto with many of the Sasieni seconds. My Old Englands and Fishtails are just stunning examples of well made, factory tooled English pipes. And, finally, I'll say the same about my Tinder Box Uniques, made by Charatan for the formerly larger chain of Tinder Box brick and mortar locations.
Every one of those pipes were purchased for well south of a fifty dollar bill and they're all lovely smokers.
I was wishy-washy about the first Sav Estella I saw. But, my rabbi at this forum - the Sage of Metaire - told me that if I didn't like it he'd buy it from me unseen and unsmoked. That was three years ago and I smoke that burner weekly.
I'll extend you the same offer.
Fnord
P.S. Damn. Let's not forget Canada. There are plenty of Canadian made Blatter, vintage Brigham and Trypis burners in this range as well. F.
I seriously started piping eight years ago when I quit the nails. I knew I needed a stable of pipes and didn't want to break the bank getting there. I very quickly decided that I didn't give a rip about smoking a dead man's burner and, just as importantly, name brand production pipes are always great but why not try their seconds?
Here's a great website that guided me: http://www.pipes.org/wp-content/uploads/Articles/Seconds.html
As to the page itself, I take exception with the Savinelli Estella being a second. Full stop. That's just horseshit. Ditto with many of the Sasieni seconds. My Old Englands and Fishtails are just stunning examples of well made, factory tooled English pipes. And, finally, I'll say the same about my Tinder Box Uniques, made by Charatan for the formerly larger chain of Tinder Box brick and mortar locations.
Every one of those pipes were purchased for well south of a fifty dollar bill and they're all lovely smokers.
I was wishy-washy about the first Sav Estella I saw. But, my rabbi at this forum - the Sage of Metaire - told me that if I didn't like it he'd buy it from me unseen and unsmoked. That was three years ago and I smoke that burner weekly.
I'll extend you the same offer.
Fnord
P.S. Damn. Let's not forget Canada. There are plenty of Canadian made Blatter, vintage Brigham and Trypis burners in this range as well. F.
I'm a beginning pipe smoker myself, so I can relate. I was terrified of buying my first briar because I was worried about poor smoking quality, burning a pipe out, etc. There's a lot of information.
The first three briars I've bought have all been factory pipes, one each from the sort of big three. A Savinelli, a Stanwell, and a Peterson. They all smoke roughly the same, which is to say they all smoke pretty damn well. My thought process was that I didn't want to spend (and couldn't) a bunch of money on a single pipe. I need to build a foundation, and get a rotation going. If there was some type of catastrophe, I didn't want it to be soul-killing, or to have it befall my only pipe. I wanted a kind of precision reliability that I hoped factory pipes would give me. And they've all done that. NOW, I feel a bit freed up to take chances on the estate market, or to look at artisan pipes that I really, truly admire.
I also have a Stanwell Brushed Black like Tuold. It smokes very well, and costs $50 at pipesandcigars.com. My first pipe was an unfinishged Savinelli Lumberman that I bought new for $40. It's a pipe that probably would have cost quite a bit more, but it has a lot of putty fills that more or less make it unsellable at the prices Savinelli usually sells their pipes for. On the other hand, it is a quality Savinelli pipe that smokes really well.
So yes, there's a bit of information overload, but I eventually just jumped in. My apprehension turned out to be bit unfounded. I think if you get a pipe from a reputable maker, it's harder to ruin a pipe than you might think, and your odds of getting something that smokes well are extremely high.
The first three briars I've bought have all been factory pipes, one each from the sort of big three. A Savinelli, a Stanwell, and a Peterson. They all smoke roughly the same, which is to say they all smoke pretty damn well. My thought process was that I didn't want to spend (and couldn't) a bunch of money on a single pipe. I need to build a foundation, and get a rotation going. If there was some type of catastrophe, I didn't want it to be soul-killing, or to have it befall my only pipe. I wanted a kind of precision reliability that I hoped factory pipes would give me. And they've all done that. NOW, I feel a bit freed up to take chances on the estate market, or to look at artisan pipes that I really, truly admire.
I also have a Stanwell Brushed Black like Tuold. It smokes very well, and costs $50 at pipesandcigars.com. My first pipe was an unfinishged Savinelli Lumberman that I bought new for $40. It's a pipe that probably would have cost quite a bit more, but it has a lot of putty fills that more or less make it unsellable at the prices Savinelli usually sells their pipes for. On the other hand, it is a quality Savinelli pipe that smokes really well.
So yes, there's a bit of information overload, but I eventually just jumped in. My apprehension turned out to be bit unfounded. I think if you get a pipe from a reputable maker, it's harder to ruin a pipe than you might think, and your odds of getting something that smokes well are extremely high.
I agree that you should buy what catches your eye and appeals to you, but as always buyer beware. As far as price goes you can get a bad smoker at $50 and a bad smoker at $250. The price will have nothing to do with whether the pipe smokes good or not, but with the quality of the briar and how well it was made. I have a $55 Savinelli that smokes better than my Peterson that retailed for $230. With that said it would make sense for the more expensive pipe to be of better quality briar and better craftsmanship; however, that's not always the case. Sometimes you pay for the name of the company/maker as well. If you stick to the main stays like Savinelli, Peterson, Stanwell, etc. you should be able to find a good smoking pipe at a good price.
It's the quality of the wood, the engineering, the pipe maker and the pipe smoker him/herself which makes up a good smoking experience. Money is a matter of appreciation for the brand/maker and how well the marketing is for independent or mass produced pipes. For example a Walt Cannoy Cardinal House pipe starts at $189 and I am more sure about it smoking better than a $500 .
It is also upon you as a smoker as well to learn how to properly smoke a pipe. Nothing is guaranteed in this world.
Chris :puffpipe:
It is also upon you as a smoker as well to learn how to properly smoke a pipe. Nothing is guaranteed in this world.
Chris :puffpipe:
If you're anything like me, you're going to spend (waste?) at least some money on buying experience. Unfortunately, there is no shortcut to experience, as they say. A few examples: You love the grain on that small bowled billiard from a reputable maker, only to find all of your favorite tobaccos burn like crap in a small bowl. Beautiful rustication, only to find that wide buttons on a stem drive you nuts. A wide open airway, only to find you prefer more of a tight draft.
Talk about information overload! Hand feel, stem feel, airway, bowl capacity, clenching characteristics...all of these are things you will develop definite preferences about. Problem is, these are so subjective that you will have to experience them for yourself before you actually KNOW. If you are like many of us, you will wind up with a few pipes that are "good smokers", but just don't hit your personal sweet spot. (I agree on there not being too many truly bad smokers out there; one of the first things you will learn is visually identifying decent basic pipe architecture.) All the money in the world won't guarantee you a "perfect pipe" if it doesn't meet your personal preferences. Just $0.02.
Talk about information overload! Hand feel, stem feel, airway, bowl capacity, clenching characteristics...all of these are things you will develop definite preferences about. Problem is, these are so subjective that you will have to experience them for yourself before you actually KNOW. If you are like many of us, you will wind up with a few pipes that are "good smokers", but just don't hit your personal sweet spot. (I agree on there not being too many truly bad smokers out there; one of the first things you will learn is visually identifying decent basic pipe architecture.) All the money in the world won't guarantee you a "perfect pipe" if it doesn't meet your personal preferences. Just $0.02.
Buying higher in the market increases your chances of getting a good pipe.
But, it seems to vary with the pipe. Briar is not uniform, nor is human craftsmanship.
For pure price/performance, get a few cobs
But, it seems to vary with the pipe. Briar is not uniform, nor is human craftsmanship.
For pure price/performance, get a few cobs
"Great pipes occur at all price points, but there's no guarantee that any pipe made by anyone will be a great pipe. "
Bingo, and the winner is Brush.
Music, welcome aboard.
As you have read on this thread, there are lifetimes of great experience here to absorb. This should give you a good springboard into piping. You have to just jump in at some point, you did it right by asking.
Music, I wish you the best of journeys and long slow enjoyable smokes as you contemplate the mysteries.
Bingo, and the winner is Brush.
Music, welcome aboard.
As you have read on this thread, there are lifetimes of great experience here to absorb. This should give you a good springboard into piping. You have to just jump in at some point, you did it right by asking.
Music, I wish you the best of journeys and long slow enjoyable smokes as you contemplate the mysteries.
If you want a great smoking pipe for 125.00 grab this one. http://briarblues.com/ak78.htm
These older Caminetto's are incredible smokers for the money. Forget about looks, you want a great smoker first and foremost.
I owned a few of these that were made by Radice/ Ascorti and they are highly prized for their smoking properties. This Apple is a nice size for many different cuts of tobacco.
100.00 Peterson pipes are generally made like shit.
These older Caminetto's are incredible smokers for the money. Forget about looks, you want a great smoker first and foremost.
I owned a few of these that were made by Radice/ Ascorti and they are highly prized for their smoking properties. This Apple is a nice size for many different cuts of tobacco.
100.00 Peterson pipes are generally made like shit.
guar·an·tee
/ɡerənˈtē/
noun
1.
a formal promise or assurance (typically in writing) that certain conditions will be fulfilled, especially that a product will be repaired or replaced if not of a specified quality and durability.
Ryan has already said that his pipes are guaranteed to be great. I can think of at least one more brand that is guaranteed.
It is just so important to be able to handle a pipe before it is purchased and know what to look for. For me, that main points of quality are the shaping of the stummel, the drilling of the shank, fit of the tenon in the mortise, drilling of the stem and slot, and comfort of the button. I think the button is the biggest difference between a factory vs artisan pipe. There are some factors you can't tell until a pipe is smoked. I have one pipe that is a wet smoker. I have a pipe to a friend and he swears the thing just shoots liquid tobacco juice into his mouth.
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