Brand New Pipe. Cracks/Voids in Chamber Wall. What Would You Do?

[balkisobrains]

Maybe QC doesn't check every pipe. It's got an MPB stamp on the bottom. I forget why the MPBs are supposed to be a little better than some of their other Brebbia pipes. Obviously, this piece has at least an issue, and maybe even some problems. The pipe is really light, which I usually think is a good thing, but makes me think that maybe this one is not dense enough.
I'm actually going to try and address the two big voids myself, having received reassurance from the distributor that I can still attempt to get a replacement under warranty, working through them, if the pipe still fails. At that point I'm thinking that they would be going the extra mile for me, since technically they would want me to send it back to where I bought it from, in order to get any warranty issues resolved.
Thanks, ophiuchus, I really like the shape and everything about it. The draw seems nice too, I just have not smoked it yet.

Plan is to carefully sand down the sharp edges of the two voids a little, clean, dampen, completely fill with pipe cement that I will make from red oak ash from my woodstove, allow to cure, and then sand flush. There's one other very minor void that I will also address in the same way. I'm wondering if the "honey-coated bowl" might be good for the first smoke to help build some cake and maybe prevent any soft briar from igniting. I've never done it before, and need to read more about it. Also I'll probably smoke very slowly and alternate between full and half-packed bowls to help build some cake, as I have had good results with that in the past. I'll probably also cover the top and shake the grey pipe tobacco ash around in the bowl after a smoke, as that helps to build a little soft cake quickly. If it all works out, I'll ream the cake back with my reamer if it gets too thick. If anyone has any tips or suggestions concerning my plan, feel free to chime in. ::

 

[sablebrush52]

I'm actually a little more worried about the whole bowl expanding, or cake expanding, and splitting above where the voids are.

Normally it would require a very thick cake to cause such a failure. But with this pipe who knows. I'd also be concerned about what other problems are lying just below the chamber wall surfaces. The best is to get it replaced. Brebbia should never have let it out of the factory. You'd think they were Peterson!

 

[ophiuchus]

Plan is to carefully sand down the sharp edges of the two voids a little, clean, dampen, completely fill with pipe cement that I will make from red oak ash from my woodstove, allow to cure, and then sand flush. There's one other very minor void that I will also address in the same way. I'm wondering if the "honey-coated bowl" might be good for the first smoke to help build some cake and maybe prevent any soft briar from igniting. I've never done it before, and need to read more about it. Also I'll probably smoke very slowly and alternate between full and half-packed bowls to help build some cake, as I have had good results with that in the past. I'll probably also cover the top and shake the grey pipe tobacco ash around in the bowl after a smoke, as that helps to build a little soft cake quickly. If it all works out, I'll ream the cake back with my reamer if it gets too thick. If anyone has any tips or suggestions concerning my plan, feel free to chime in. ::

Umm ... looks like you already know what you're doing. :D
EDIT: Honey works better than sugar water (my sad trial-and-error); there are advocates of grape jelly on these boards.

 

[balkisobrains]

I'm about 1/3rd of the way through my little project here, having just filled the voids with pipe cement, after sanding the edges down a little.
Sanded, cleaned, masked with some metal tape because the glue is strong, and the metal conforms more easily. The edges were rounded with sandpaper, and I lowered the material surrounding the edges to make troughs. I wanted to take some more material out of the bottom area of the void on the right to widen the gap, but decided to leave well enough alone.


If you look near the folded-over portion of tape, you can see a small horizontal void. I decided not to fill this one with the cement because it seems too small to work on without being sure I won't make an air-pocket.


I whipped up some pipe cement using oak ash and water, and primed the two voids with it using a small brush. I then used a plastic syringe to inject the pipe cement more thoroughly. I would inject it and then wipe the excess puddle towards the rim. I did this four or five times until I was sure that I had filled the voids. Then, I took the brush and built up two mounds where the voids were, extending past the edges.


Pulled the mask because I didn't want the glue to grip and pull off any finish. I will set it aside with the repair horizontal and at the 6 o' clock position and let it dry over the next couple of days.


I've worked a little bit with refractory cement similar this before, and what I have learned is that that stuff does not really cure until it's fired, so I plan to smoke the pipe a few times and then sand down the bumps. Probably the surface layer will skin off a little bit, and it might even end up concave, in which case that will be what it will be. I will probably initially smoke full bowls for this process.
Also I looked into bowl-coatings, and I decided not to coat the bowl with honey, water-glass, or refractory cement/pipe cement. I do feel the need to coat the bowl before the first smoke, just due to what's going on. So, I'm going to go with the sour cream/ground-up activated carbon/buttermilk option and paint the bowl walls with a thin coat of that. Once I smoke the pipe a few times and sand down the cured bumps over the repaired voids, I guess I'll just re-paint the sanded areas with some more of the carbon slurry, and continue to smoke the pipe as normal from there. I guess the trick is going to be curing and sanding the bumps before the buttermilk goes bad so I can make a second batch of slurry. Anyone know how long it takes for buttermilk to go bad in the fridge? :puffpipe:

 

[Snow Hill]

I really cant speak to your buttermilk question, but that's some fine work on the pipe! Nice pictures, too.

 

[wayneteipen]

From a pipe maker's perspective, I can say that it's unacceptable to sell a pipe with flaws like that in the tobacco chamber. It just is. A pipe like this in my shop ends up being a shop pipe. The good news is, however, with a good bowl coating you will probably not have any issues with the pipe as far as burn out or cracking under normal smoking conditions. I have several shop pipes that I smoke regularly with similar issues that are holding up just fine. Thirty or forty years down the road, who knows.
As for bowl coating, if you want a neutral flavored recipe that won't spoil, use the gelatin based one. For a small batch, use a 30 ml medicine cup and fill the bottom of the cup with unflavored gelatin powder (Walmart carries the Knorr brand in the canning section where the Ball jars are located) to about the 1 ml line. Add 12 ml hot water. Dip a toothpick in honey to get just a drop or so and stir it into the mixture until the gelatin dissolves. Add a heaping baby spoon of activated charcoal powder and stir until there are no clumps. Let sit at room temperature until it starts to thicken a little then paint it on the tobacco chamber with a small art paintbrush. If the mixture is too thin, let it sit a bit longer or add a little more charcoal powder. If it's too thick, add a few drops of water. This mixture can be covered with foil and refrigerated for months without molding or going bad. It will gel. To turn it back to liquid, just heat it. You may have to add a few drops of water to rehydrate it as some will evaporate over time. For larger batches, I mix it in a small Mason jar. To reheat, I put a small amount of water in a pot (just enough to go no further than a fourth of the way up the jar) and place the jar in the pot and heat it. Don't put the jar right out of the fridge in hot water because it will crack.
If your mixture is too thin when you apply it, let the coat dry (it only takes about 5 or 10 minutes) then apply another coat or so.
Hope this helps.

 

[mso489]

It might fix up fine and smoke for decades. Or it could burn out in a year or two, maybe from a flaw you can't even see. On principle, I have a problem with spending your own labor trying to get a serviceable pipe out of a pipe you have already spent quite a bit of money for. The retailer and/or manufacturer ought to get you the pipe you paid for.

 

[ophiuchus]

Taking a little risk. I suspect deeper irregularities in the wood as well. I respect you efforts, though. I can't blame you for wanting to save that pipe.
Here's to hoping you get a good smoker out of this potential save. :clap:

 

[balkisobrains]

Thanks snowhill, I figured I better take some pics along the way.
wayneteipen, the gelatin slurry was number two on my list! I think I'm going to stick with the sour cream cut with a little buttermilk, only because I think it will maintain its consistency a little better and stay workable a little longer during the application. From what I understand, it won't go rancid on the bowl, so I'm not worried about that, I just don't want to waste the remaining buttermilk. I guess I should find out if I can freeze a little bit and then thaw it out with no issues between the first coat and second coat, if I need to touch up the carbon coating after sanding the pipe cement down. I'll make some biscuits or something with the rest.
mso489, I agree with your principles. You mentioned the cost earlier and I had meant to address that. I paid a slightly under what they usually go for. With the euro conversion at that time, I paid about $90 total out-of-pocket to my door. The US distributor is aware of my issues and is willing to go beyond what they normally have to do and will help if the pipe fails after my repair within the remaining warranty period. If I do a good job on the repair, I don't see why they would not still honor that. So I have ten months to smoke it regularly but carefully, and to see if anything develops. If this thing is really weak, I think something might develop before then. If it holds up through that period, my guess is that it should continue to do so, provided I don't smoke it or ream it out carelessly.

ophiuchus

Taking a little risk. I suspect deeper irregularities in the wood as well. I respect you efforts, though. I can't blame you for wanting to save that pipe.
Here's to hoping you get a good smoker out of this potential save. :clap:

Yep, a bit of a gamble. I'll post back once I have applied the thin layer of carbon slurry to the chamber. I plan to leave the pipe cement over the voids bare and undisturbed though.
::

 

[metalheadycigarguy]

One of my 80-100 yr old WDC pipes had a pit/void in the bottom of the side wall just above the base of the chamber. Not a good spot for a pit/void in the briar. I took some wooden matches and lit them and let them burn down. I then took the charcoal from the burnt matches and fill the bottom of the pipe and packed the charcoal into the pit/void. I then put a light coat of honey into the pipe and then coated the chamber with some cigar ash. Basically creating my own carbonized bowl. I let it sit for two days, and then fired it up. I've smoked it multiple times and haven't had one issue with it.

 

[balkisobrains]

Sounds encouraging, metalhead.
Still a work-in-progress here, but I have applied the carbon slurry.


I ground up some activated carbon in a stainless pot, using a stainless spoon. I found an easy way to separate the powder from any granules by stretching cloth over a jar, spreading some across the cloth, tapping the cloth, then tipping the jar and dumping the big pieces off. Then I tapped the stretched cloth off over a clean paper plate, and the dust trapped in the cloth would fall out. I did this a few times until I had about a tablespoons-worth. I used the bottom of the spoon on the pile of carbon dust to grind up any stray pieces, although these were all pretty small at this point. In a small bowl, I used about a teaspoon of sour-cream and mixed in the powder with a fork. Then I added about half a teaspoon of buttermilk and stirred it up. Finally I prepared and added about half-a-teaspoon more of the carbon powder, because it looked like it could use a little more.
Once that was all done, I used a detail brush and painted around the pipe-cement fills, and around the rim. I did not want to cover the pipe cement because it is not cured yet, and can still crumble away. I figured that moisture and insulation is not what that area needs at this point. I used a small flat brush and started coating from the bottom of the bowl and going up in single passes. I learned that this would drag the slurry up to the top, leaving mostly carrier behind, and some ridges of slurry on either side. I figured out that loading up one side of the brush and starting from the top going down using a stippling motion would coat much better. It looks a little "ridgy" in the photos. I took these shortly afterwards, and checking it now, the coating has laid down a bit and looks smoother. Plan now is to let it dry for three days, and then carefully load it up and smoke it a few times in order to cure the cement and coating. Then if everything holds together, I will sand the cement over the voids flush, coat those and any bare briar spots with more carbon slurry, and possibly try to smooth any thick spots throughout the carbon coating, and possibly do a second "skim coat" of carbon over the whole thing again, if it looks like it needs it. I was thinking that I might want to do a salt-alcohol treatment to remove any tobacco oils, if I want to re-coat the whole thing with the carbon slurry after smoking. ::

 

[dottiewarden]

I must applaud your efforts. I'm sure you will finally get a chance to put that beautiful looking pipe to the test.

 

[balkisobrains]

Thanks warden, I'm looking forwards to firing it up. I must have smoothed out that big blob of slurry above the draught-hole shortly after taking the pic. =)

 

[jvnshr]

Wow, thanks for the repair photos of the pipe, let us know how it smokes.

 

[buroak]

Nice work, balkisobrains. I have seen similar flaws in a few pipes I have bought. Sometimes the pipes were returned. In a couple of cases I chose to keep a flawed pipe and patch it up much as you have done. So far, so good...
By the way, one pipe with flaws like yours was a Savinelli. Another was an older Orlik.

 

[balkisobrains]

Thanks, buroak. Here's an update.
Here is the bowl after the carbon slurry had dried. It smoothed down very nicely, with only a couple of small patches being raised above the surrounding areas. I did not work it at all. I touched a small area of the carbon slurry to see how it had adhered, and the stuff is sticking like glue.

Other side. I absent-mindedly blew into the shank and forced some sanding dust into the heel. It won't blow out so I'll just leave it there.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/613/32311560851_e53be24051_m.jpg
Next step was to smoke it, so I blended up some of my D&R Blenders Bench tobaccos. Four grams of Izmir, .75g Bulgarian Oriental, 4g Blonde VA, and 2g Bright VA Leaf all went into a jar. A slight bit of hydration and a day later, and I was ready to pack a bowl. These will burn evenly and easily, and leave a lot of oils behind.

After the first smoke.

The tobacco was very nice. A little malty at the beginning, so reducing one of the VAs would help that probably. I think it was coming from the Bright, but I have not smoked the D&R VAs that much yet.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/431/32330488581_8b6ba389bb_m.jpg
The bumps of pipe-cement sloughed off at some point during the smoke, leaving the voids filled, and some residue around the edges of where it all originally was. At this point, all that was left to do was sand a bit, clean the sanded spots with alcohol, and put a final coat of the carbon slurry over the patched voids.

I can't say that I'm 100% happy with how the pipe cement "cured". I was expecting it to become solid, but it still seemed a bit powdery, so I brushed out just a bit of it from the voids to create slight voids, (yep, it was that powdery and loose) and then re-filled with the the carbon slurry during the final patch-coat. In retrospect, I probably would have gone with un-sanded pure grout with no dyes or additives, because I know that that would have dried firmly and adhered more securely, in a more workable form.
I forgot to take a pic of the area directly after sanding and wiping with alcohol, but here is the final patch-coat of carbon slurry. I doubt that I will have to work it much, if at all, once it dries, based on how the first coat laid down so nicely.

::

 

[balkisobrains]

I hate the post-edit time-limit. What is the point of that?

 

[balkisobrains]

Quick update. Once the slurry in the above picture had dried, I smoked the pipe and inspected the patch. Giving it a light sanding to hone down the carbon points revealed some issues with the pipe cement. It still hadn't firmed up and had remained powdery. So I cleaned out and re-filled the voids completely with non-sanded white grout. I know that this will dry nearly solid, and adhere a little better. It won't be powdery.

Wet carbon slurry over the dried grout.

Dried carbon slurry.

First smoke after re-filling with grout and re-applying the slurry.

This seems pretty good. I'm happy with how the grout turned out as opposed to the pipe cement, and the carbon slurry works out well too. I'll smoke it a few more times and then probably hone the newly-patched area just slightly with fine sandpaper to flatten the peaks of the sharp carbon pieces. This will make it easier to wipe out with a pipe cleaner while building cake, without having to worry as much about catching the carbon and ripping it off of the wall. The peaks are sharp and very hard otherwise. Also, I keep forgetting to mention that there were no smells in the bowl at any time from the dairy products!

::

 

[cortezattic]

Thanks for the photo journal of your experiment. Very informative.

The buttermilk/sour cream recipe has been mentioned several times over the years,

and I wonder what the first guy to use it was thinking?!
(I think the editing time limit is supposed to minimize out of sync dialogue.

Like, somebody responds to a post, and then the OP is edited and all continuity is lost.)

 

[balkisobrains]

Figured that I would post an update with this, although I only have about 10 smokes on it.
So far, things are working out well with the repair, and the pipe as a whole. It smokes very nicely.
For the first three smokes, after the bowls were finished, I brushed off the bowl walls with a pipe cleaner to remove any tobacco and ash, then capped off the bowl with my finger and shook the ashes around to coat the bowl with a fine dust. Then I would dump that and blow out/off most of what was stuck to the walls, leaving some fine particles behind to help build some cake.
After about the third bowl, I started to just dump the ash, brush down the chamber with a pipe cleaner, and then I've been wiping it out with my finger only because I don't want to break off the bowl coating. To be honest, it feels like it is really well-bonded to the bowl, but I'll do it for a while longer before I start wiping it out with a paper towel.
Here it is with around 10 smokes on it. I've been smoking VAs, Oris, and VA/Oris in it, and started smoking a bunch of Latakias in other pipes most recently, but plan to use this regularly in the near future.

The small, dark rectangular spot was a piece of tobacco that I picked off after wiping the bowl down, the coating is still there. There's some color variation across the coating and developing cake, mainly due to me re-working the application of the filler and spot-applying the bowl-coating a couple of times, but I expect that to even out as I continue to use it. The thickness is more or less even, but I ended up with slightly different "grits" of bowl-coating as I mixed up each batch, so that appears to the the main cause of the color variations.

::