Bowl Material or Engineering?

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Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
45,251
119,255
1. I don't think "engineering" is the correct word. It's more "design"

2. The finest design possible, unless properly executed, will be crap.

3. The finest design possible, properly executed with crap materials will be....crap

4. A less than perfect design, properly executed with reasonable materials will, 99% of the time, be indistinguishable (in terms of smoking pleasure) from the "perfect". For empirical proof of this, just review the number of posts telling us all how wonderful this or that pipe is, even with the imperfections.

Moral of the story....it's all absolute hooey, but if you like theorizing and "what-iffing" then knock yourself out.
istockphoto-869780092-612x612.jpg

The rest is just window dressing.
 

warren

Lifer
Sep 13, 2013
12,352
18,544
Foothills of the Chugach Range, AK
A pipe’s aesthetics mean little, so that leaves “functionality” as the reason for his inspection.

The aesthetics are the singularly most important of my criteria for a pipe purchase. I buy a pipe strictly on impulse. I enter a pipe shop for tobacco. cleaners, etc. As I proceed with the transaction I glance at the displays. If no pipe attracts my eye, stops my scan in its tracks, I continue on with my day. The shape, proportion and finish therefore, determine my initial interest. Should a pipe catch my eye I will fondle and inspect, noting how well it fits my fist, the caliber of any metal work, and etc. It's not complicated, no angst involved, the pipe either passes or flunks. Once paid for the most important test, actually smoking the tool a few times. Some are retained, others are trashed.

Maybe a point of interest, it's been many, ten or so, years since I brought home an additional pipe.
 

Grangerous

Lifer
Dec 8, 2020
3,517
14,608
East Coast USA
The aesthetics are the singularly most important of my criteria for a pipe purchase. I buy a pipe strictly on impulse. I enter a pipe shop for tobacco. cleaners, etc. As I proceed with the transaction I glance at the displays. If no pipe attracts my eye, stops my scan in its tracks, I continue on with my day. The shape, proportion and finish therefore, determine my initial interest. Should a pipe catch my eye I will fondle and inspect, noting how well it fits my fist, the caliber of any metal work, and etc. It's not complicated, no angst involved, the pipe either passes or flunks. Once paid for the most important test, actually smoking the tool a few times. Some are retained, others are trashed.

Maybe a point of interest, it's been many, ten or so, years since I brought home an additional pipe.
In fairness, I recall that you've previously said all of those things. I’ve mischaracterized you in trying to make my point. I have to eat this one! My apology, Warren.
 

OzPiper

Lifer
Nov 30, 2020
6,866
37,097
72
Sydney, Australia
I@OzPiper It’s easy to become numb to topics that no longer hold interest. I get that too.

But this is a pipe discussion forum.
I don’t mean to say that this OP is of no interest

My point is that while I use the internet everyday, how it works is of little interest to me. 🤔
I’m happy to rely on the IT support team to keep things running

And I get that many are Motörhead’s.
All I ask of my car is that it goes when I start it up

Wine is probably the closest to my heart.
I obviously want to know the basics of grape variety and some details of its fermentation and elevage but I have no interest in delving further than that.

I am happy to remain an amateur 😁

But I am still following this thread.
Do despite my protestations, there must be something to interest me here
🤣
 
Jan 28, 2018
14,032
158,112
67
Sarasota, FL
I don't understand the talk about engineering and design. From what I've seen, the carver outlines the pipe shape on the block. That hardly qualifies as blueprints, calculus equations or any other engineering or design elements. They're mostly making a shape that is known and likely one they made many times before.

That's not to downplay what they do. Seems like the emphasis is on Workmanship. Great fit and finish along with precision drills. Those things are not engineering or design.
 
Jun 9, 2015
3,970
24,852
42
Mission, Ks
I have pipes with various sized draft holes, I even have one or two that basically have the mortise drilled through to the bowl. Some require a slightly different packing method, some favor flakes, some require a more delicate draw. But they all smoke well, or I wouldn’t have kept them. It’s also worth noting that most estate pipes on the market have had there draft holes reamed and enlarged.
 

Chasing Embers

Captain of the Black Frigate
Nov 12, 2014
45,251
119,255
I guess if creating tools for new drills or carving, inventing new formulas for stem materials, using magnets for attaching stems, or creating incredible three dimensional geometric figures isn't design or engineering, it must just be magic. 😃
 
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Grangerous

Lifer
Dec 8, 2020
3,517
14,608
East Coast USA
The machinist cited turbulence and he, like many others, makes alterations to his pipe’s bore diameter to create a better smoking pipe.

I’m one to believe that it may well be the single most important variable with regard to whether a pipe smokes well.

Others, like @Briarlee believe it’s the quality of the briar rather than any specific design dimensions.

However, pipes are made of various material besides briar. All are drilled.

Also of topic was tobacco’s influence on a pipe.

The original question posited — Bowl Material or Engineering? Just trying to steer us back. It’s a great discussion thus far.

On edit: I’ll offer this for thought… If Missouri Meerschaum pipes had a tighter draw, I wonder if the MM company would be where it is today?
 
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Briar Tuck

Lifer
Nov 29, 2022
1,109
5,744
Oregon coast
I get that.

My best mate at university was very much into hi-fi and had a most indulgent mother.
I remember seeing his new set-up for the 1st time (1970)
Transcriptor turntable, Quad amplifier and Quad electrostatic speakers.
He spent what seemed like an eternity fiddling with the equipment.
Then even more time placing a chair in THE "optimum" position.
Then turned on the equipment and looked at me expectantly

I said "you haven't put a record on !"
His answer was "Can't you hear - there is no hiss, crackle or pop and rumble"

He was into the specs and minutiae
I just wanted to listen to music
😄
This reminds me of friends I had way back when who would spend hundreds of dollars on a stylus for their turntable.
 

bullet08

Lifer
Nov 26, 2018
10,340
41,824
RTP, NC. USA
The drilling techniques have improved tremendously last few decades. I remember looking down at bagpipe drones from early 1900s. You could not see the opening on the other end. Even in 80s, it was rather happy accident if you could. By end of 90s, something changed and the drilling improved leaps and bounds. Come 2010, some of the drones were straight, and more innovative guys were using CNC machines. Now, bagpipes are typically made from African Blackwood. They are very brittle and tend to crack easy. I don't know how delicate briars are. But from what I have seen, they are tough. Imagine drilling into a block of briar with bit size of draught hole. Can't be easy. They might get stuck, break.. I bet straight draught holes are not very often achieved. I'm sure there will be some rough surfaces.

I don't know too much about quality of briar, but I trust the factories to age them, and do what they do to them to get them to a stable condition.

Engineering is where the magic happens. The fact all my pipes are smoking without any issues, I would say they were drilled well with good enough skills.

But the other ingredient is missing. The person who is smoking. Unless you have some basic idea as to how to smoke a pipe, that well engineering pipe with quality briar won't do any good
 

Scottmi

Lifer
Oct 15, 2022
4,025
58,774
Orcas, WA
I don't understand the talk about engineering and design. From what I've seen, the carver outlines the pipe shape on the block. That hardly qualifies as blueprints, calculus equations or any other engineering or design elements. They're mostly making a shape that is known and likely one they made many times before.

That's not to downplay what they do. Seems like the emphasis is on Workmanship. Great fit and finish along with precision drills. Those things are not engineering or design.
engineering? or mere design?
 
Jan 28, 2018
14,032
158,112
67
Sarasota, FL
engineering? or mere design?
I'm not saying there never been engineering or design invoked with tobacco pipes. I'm saying that with the vast majority of pipes carved day to day in 2022, there's no engineering other than what already exists. There's a distinct difference between manufacturing and design. My comments were because I hear the terms design and engineering thrown around frequently when in fact, these skills are seldom employed in any given pipe that is carved.
 

Grangerous

Lifer
Dec 8, 2020
3,517
14,608
East Coast USA
“In physics and engineering, fluid dynamics is the field that describes and measures the flow of fluids, including air and other gasses, as they move through various environments. One such environment is that found inside of a tobacco pipe. Air must move efficiently from the bowl, through the shank and stem, and out of the mouthpiece for proper function. The efficiency of that movement is crucial because interruptions can cause problems like moisture buildup and heat that are antithetical to the conversion of tobacco into satisfying smoke.” — Dr Dunn
 

OzPiper

Lifer
Nov 30, 2020
6,866
37,097
72
Sydney, Australia
This reminds me of friends I had way back when who would spend hundreds of dollars on a stylus for their turntable.
Yup.
That's my friend
He once loaned me an armful of records (we're talking of the early '70s)
When I returned them, he told me to keep them all.
Having been sullied by my vastly inferior stylus, he deemed them unsuitable to be played on his rig 😱
 

Grangerous

Lifer
Dec 8, 2020
3,517
14,608
East Coast USA
Dr Dunn did not engineer the Peterson system. He analyzed a system that was designed 120 years ago.
Yeah. But Dr Dunn said it a helluva lot better than I could.

— I’m in the camp that says that any well drilled, designed, engineered; (whatever we choose to name it), pipe, regardless of material or material quality, can smoke tobacco well. —Explain MM Cob’s success to me again?

—Others here say its the quality of the bowl material and that airflow is of lesser importance. — Just drill through the block and smoke away, as long as it’s quality briar.

That’s the discussion. Where do you fall on the matter? What’s your opinion?

I’ll offer mine—Pipe’s are pot luck. We buy many and after a time we cherish those few that are our best smokers. Others, like the machinist, take matters into their own hands to improve every pipe they own by drilling. Others, simply go with a sure bet and smoke only Cobs. Some Meers, Clays or other hardwoods. One of my best pipes is a no named basket from 28 years ago. —A lucky purchase.

None of this is to say that Briar isn’t beautiful or that collectors shouldn’t love them. The topic deals specifically with how they smoke.