Bottomless Oxidation on Vulcanite?

[The Novice Piper]

I'm puzzled by an issue with an old Dr. Grabow stem from earlier this year. Hoping someone can offer insight before I start work on the next one.

The issue is that no matter how much oxidation I removed (and no matter the method used) the oxidation kept presenting itself, and was not apparently diminishing. After several soaks, lots of sanding, and many different treatments found online, the problem remained.

With very fine sanding I was able to smoothen the stem enough to see the oxidation as hundreds (thousands?) of tiny flecks along the stem, like lots of tiny pits filled with the orange crud. Sanding these flecks would remove them, but only served to reveal new pits with more oxidation, and the cycle would repeat.

I thought if I sanded deep enough I'd eventually get below the layer of material that was infected with the pitting, but there seemed to be no end to it. Eventually I just went to a finer micromesh pad and polished over the top of the visible oxidation, which served to pull it off without opening new pits beneath it. A cosmetic fix, but oxidation still remains all throughout the stem at deeper levels.

Just found this thread today:

My Experience with Lbepen Deoxidizer [with pics] :: Pipe Repair and Maintenance

Would this stuff remove logos? all of these products would. I usually make sure the logo has some silicone grease on the logo. Sometimes I use tape and silicone grease. Vaseline isn’t bad, but you need a grease that is thick. Plumbers grease is good as well.

pipesmagazine.com

The explanations of the oxidation process offered here are helpful, particularly the description of vulcanite material as a collection of compressed cells. But there's no mention of how deep oxidation can go, or if it can permeate completely throughout stem.

All information I've found online suggests that oxidation affects the surface layer of a stem, and can be removed by sanding down past that layer to reveal "fresh" unaffected material. This doesn't match my experience. It appears the entire thickness/substsance of the stem is riddled with pockets of oxidation than can only be masked over.

My questions:

1. Can oxidation indeed run all the way through vulcanite stem material, given enough time? I always figured once deep enough to avoid air contact it would stop...meaning it's possible to sand the oxidation from the surface of the stem and everything beneath that layer is clean.

2. If it can run all throughout, and sanding will only reveal more of it deeper down, is it harmful to do as I've done and polish over the surface area, leaving untouched oxidation deeper in the stem material?

3. How do you handle something like this? Is there a way to completely draw out all oxidation that's premeated a stem? Or are you doomed only to have effect on the surface layer...

Hope this makes sense.

 

[bullet08]

Embrace the green stems. Or go acrylic. I can't never make them look shiny like others. Lack of elbow grease.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Sounds like a pain in the ass. Me? I'd throw it away.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

Some of my stems look like shit and i can't keep them looking good.

I've wondered why.

 

[The Novice Piper]

I guess what I'm asking is, will this happen with every oxidized stem I restore? I don't understand why all the videos and blogs/posts out there instruct one to sand the oxidation away if that's an impossible thing to do.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

will this happen with every oxidized stem I restore?

No, I've restored a few, and have never come across one that I couldn't sand away the oxidized part, and then bring up to a polish. And, once a pipe hits my pipe stand, I never have a problem with it again. But, I use a jeweler's cloth to keep my stems pristine after each smoke.

 

[makhorkasmoker]

For a Dr. Grabow, I'd consider contacting the company and getting a new stem made. I have not had to replace the stem on my Dr. Grabow (yet), but I hear they'll sell you a replacement, in your choice of material, really cheap--less than $20. I don't know if this is still true, but it might be worth looking into.

 

[mingc]

I guess what I'm asking is, will this happen with every oxidized stem I restore? I don't understand why all the videos and blogs/posts out there instruct one to sand the oxidation away if that's an impossible thing to do.

Vulcanite discolors, especially when exposed to light, some faster than others. It's simply the nature of the material. You ran into the cheapest of the cheap stuff.

 

[xrundog]

Good ebonite will clean up nice and black. Lower quality rubber can be impossible to get clean. Grabows, in my experience, can be some of the worst. Even if you can get one black, it will oxidize again pretty quickly. They just aren’t good stems. My opinion.

 

[georged]

It's a vulcanite quality thing.

If a batch of rubber powder gets contaminated while in the vat getting ground, you get a "constellation" effect.

 

[camaguey]

If you have patience you may try this. With cotton and alcohol , pass several times. It would turn worse , maybe green. What this is doing is taking the oxidation out. Then , continue several times with the cotton and alcohol until it improves and you see less oxidative material on the cotton (you may need several cotton balls). After that improvement , continue with a dental brush and baking soda again for several times. When the brush is less dirty repeat the cotton and alcohol process until you see your vulcanite black again. Then repeat the brush with baking soda and dental paste several times. It would be much better but then soak the stem with olive oil and leave it like that for one day. The next day polish with a cloth . Not like new , but very much improved. If you are not so patient , after the first step when it turns brown-green , pass wet 800 sandpaper until it is black again. Then finish with the brush procedure and the olive oil. Good luck.

 

[jpmcwjr]

In any event, coat the stem with mineral oil, or Obsidian Oil as soon as you've cleaned it.

 

[kcghost]

You done all you can for this pipe. Either throw it in the trashcan or get a new stem for it.

 

[Pipke]

If you have patience you may try this. With cotton and alcohol , pass several times. It would turn worse , maybe green. What this is doing is taking the oxidation out.

Oxidation of the vulcanite rubber is green or brown colored, so taking it off wouldn't turn it more green. Alcohol doesn't remove the oxidation.

 

[LeafErikson]

Seems like an awful lot of work for such an inexpensive pipe. I would toss it in the trash without a second thought.

 

[OzPiper]

The oxidation will not only run deep it is poor quality vulcanite but can be inside the stem as well.
As in the case of this Stanwell


Get a new stem (preferably acrylic) for it, if it is a favourite pipe and you’re loathe to throw it out


In this case, not just a new stem, but a different look

 

[The Novice Piper]

It's a vulcanite quality thing.

If a batch of rubber powder gets contaminated while in the vat getting ground, you get a "constellation" effect.


View attachment 334663

This is exactly what I'm talking about, and this the only picture I've seen of it online.

Do you know of a source where I can learn more about this "constellation" process/effect?

Steve Laug's suggestion for dealing with this was to polish over it and leave it at that, which is what I did for this particular pipe. I'd like to find a quicker and "prettier" workaround for this issue on future pipes, as I have a handful ahead of me to restore.

(Unfortunately, replacing the stems isn't possible; they are the colored spades Dr. Grabow discontinued, and the originals have to be preserved for historical/sentimental purposes. Some will be smoked and some just for display.)

If you have patience you may try this. With cotton and alcohol , pass several times. It would turn worse , maybe green. What this is doing is taking the oxidation out. Then , continue several times with the cotton and alcohol until it improves and you see less oxidative material on the cotton (you may need several cotton balls). After that improvement , continue with a dental brush and baking soda again for several times. When the brush is less dirty repeat the cotton and alcohol process until you see your vulcanite black again. Then repeat the brush with baking soda and dental paste several times. It would be much better but then soak the stem with olive oil and leave it like that for one day. The next day polish with a cloth . Not like new , but very much improved. If you are not so patient , after the first step when it turns brown-green , pass wet 800 sandpaper until it is black again. Then finish with the brush procedure and the olive oil. Good luck.

I tried this method and had moderate results on pulling the oxidation out, but the pitting was still pretty bad. Finished result before polishing is here:




Suggestions to throw the stem/pipe in the trash are sensible, but miss the point of the question.

Thanks everyone for your input and help!

 

[sablebrush52]

Basically, Vulcanite oxidation is a chemical change to the material. The only way to remove it is to physically sand it off.
With cheaper grades the oxidation can run deep. If replacing the stem is not an option, get it as decent as you can, and and keep it away from oxygen and sunlight to retard the rate of decay.
I coat my Vulcanite stems with wax as a barrier and leave NONE of them out on a rack. All of mine are in pipe cases that hold anywhere from 15 to 22 pipes.

 

[anotherbob]

me I only remove it if I can taste the sulfur. To me that just says well loved/used pipe.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

The new Grabow stems are some kind of plastic, maybe ABS. They're really comfortable and easy to keep clean, but they're soft and will eventually need replacement.

I think it's $15 to have a new stem put on at Grabow. I haven't done it yet.

Maybe they would make two if you asked. I have a couple of pipes I wouldn't mimd having extras for.