Bite Marks — Or a defect?

[Law]

Greetings everyone,

I recently bought a Eltang Arne Jacobsen bamboo pencil shank. In about 1 day of using a pipe, about 2 bowls in, the stem had a noticeable dent and a hole. moving on to the next day, smoking 3 bowls, The stem cracked into a thin hairline crack.

Is this a bite though? is it caused by a "sharp tooth" from clenching? I have many pipes with delicate stems, including small peterson pipes such as the belgqiue and the calabash speciality from the 60's that I bought estate and have used for years without issues, only scratches and the light oxidation.

I contacted the seller but he is refusing that this may be a defect and may have been a soft spot in the vulcanite. Instead, he is pressing it as a tooth bite through, although the crack is a hairline rather than a circular spot. Also, it happened in just 2 days, around 5 bowls total.

pictures attached for reference.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

Is it new? Do you clench? Does the dent correspond with a lower canine when positioned where you normally smoke?

 

[Law]

Is it new? Do you clench? Does the dent correspond with a lower canine when positioned where you normally smoke?

hello, yes it is new pipe and not an estate. I do clench but let the pipe hang and in some instances I rest my stem back in my moral teeth, in other situation let it hang between my teeth and the button rests on top of my gums. I never really bite my stem, especially a pipe as light as an eltang pencil shank.

And not in my lower canine teeth, as I like to push the stem further inside my mouth to let the pipe hang.

here is a photo on the first 2 bowls, it seems dented and has a small hole in the stem.

You can even see in the pictures the mark of my tooth on the side of the dent, which I have with all my other pipes, but never do you see the scratches in the area where the dent is so I don't understand how that area is damaged by me or my tooth.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

Since it is new, it would seem any marks might be made from your usage. In the close ups, I see a concentrated bunch of light chatter marks near the deepest mark in both photos. This suggests to me that this is a repeated contact point that might correspond to a molar in your mouth. There may be a peak in the tooth that could’ve punched a hole. I hate to say it, but it might be a bite through on your end. Two bowls may not seem like a lot, but depending on how slowly you smoke, that could be two to four hours of being in your mouth. With mouth movements and the stem making contact as you describe, it’s not a stretch to see those marks appearing in a few hours. You may bite harder than you think as you reposition the pipe during a smoke. I’ll be curious to read what others might think.

 

[Law]

Since it is new, it would seem any marks might be made from your usage. In the close ups, I see a concentrated bunch of light chatter marks near the deepest mark in both photos. This suggests to me that this is a repeated contact point that might correspond to a molar in your mouth. There may be a peak in the tooth that could’ve punched a hole. I hate to say it, but it might be a bite through on your end. Two bowls may not seem like a lot, but depending on how slowly you smoke, that could be two to four hours of being in your mouth. With mouth movements and the stem making contact as you describe, it’s not a stretch to see those marks appearing in a few hours. You may bite harder than you think as you reposition the pipe during a smoke. I’ll be curious to read what others might think.

I wouldn't mind hearing others opinion too, but I never realized this vulcanite stem is more prone to bite throughs than all my other vulcanite stems, including corncobs with plastic stems.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

I’m not sure if this stem is is more prone to bite through than others or not. An average human bite is approximately seventy psi. Concentrated with a pointed peak on a tooth on a single spot could conceivably be bad for any stem. My thinking is the multiple light chatter marks puts the dent in the general vicinity of where you bite down.

 

[captpat]

I had a crack like that develop in a Savinelli Pot with an ebonite stem, it was a pretty delicate stem, thin with a small button. I did a superglue repair on it and it's fine though I'm a bit leary of doing additional damage. I've since replaced it with an acrylic stem for daily use. I also tend to clench.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I have no idea, but it looks like bite chatter. Those plastic chewy corncob stems tend to encourage chewing.
Either way, it would suck to get a new Eltang and then have that happen, regardless.

 

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Greetings everyone,

I recently bought a Eltang Arne Jacobsen bamboo pencil shank. In about 1 day of using a pipe, about 2 bowls in, the stem had a noticeable dent and a hole. moving on to the next day, smoking 3 bowls, The stem cracked into a thin hairline crack.

Is this a bite though? is it caused by a "sharp tooth" from clenching? I have many pipes with delicate stems, including small peterson pipes such as the belgqiue and the calabash speciality from the 60's that I bought estate and have used for years without issues, only scratches and the light oxidation.

I contacted the seller but he is refusing that this may be a defect and may have been a soft spot in the vulcanite. Instead, he is pressing it as a tooth bite through, although the crack is a hairline rather than a circular spot. Also, it happened in just 2 days, around 5 bowls total.

pictures attached for reference.

View attachment 218740View attachment 218741

I’m no expert (or even an amateur), but if you bit through a new stem in two days, I don’t see how there could have NOT been something wrong with it.

 

[Law]

I’m no expert (or even an amateur), but if you bit through a new stem in two days, I don’t see how there could have NOT been something wrong with it.

That is exactly what I was thinking. Im not an expert too, but I have many first hand experiences with other pipes, with smaller stems that didn’t cause this. Nor do I remember clenching it tightly between my teeth. Its been 2 days, even if I did, is it really that easy for a stem to give in? Strange.

 

[mso489]

If it's a new pipe, it has to be a flaw. I gnaw through those soft plastic MM cob stems readily, but even they last me a year or two. Now I've gone all acrylic on the cobs with Forever stems and special edition pipes.

If the maker won't replace the stem (however you try to settle that) I'd have it replaced by a pipe repair person. With a proper stem on it, it will last the rest of a long life, yours i hope.

 

[georged]

Not a flaw in the material, or, necessarily, a flaw in the workmanship.

Almost definitely a flaw in the DESIGN, however.

The range of marketed bite zone thickness runs from around .180" on the high end to .132" or so on the low end.

Any stem thinner than .150"---if it's a "blade" or saddle style, not a taper style---is NOT sufficiently durable to be sold to the general public, imo. They cannot withstand clenching for long.

The end.

The possible flaw in workmanship would be if the slot was off center vertically (meaning the roof was thinner than the floor, or the other way around). That's almost exclusively the domain of artisan/handmade pipes, though, not factory ones.

 

[Law]

Not a flaw in the material, or, necessarily, a flaw in the workmanship.

Almost definitely a flaw in the DESIGN, however.

The range of marketed bite zone thickness runs from around .180" on the high end to .132" or so on the low end.

Any stem thinner than .150"---if it's a "blade" or saddle style, not a taper style---is NOT sufficiently durable to be sold to the general public, imo. They cannot withstand clenching for long.

The end.

The possible flaw in workmanship would be if the slot was off center vertically (meaning the roof was thinner than the floor, or the other way around). That's almost exclusively the domain of artisan/handmade pipes, though, not factory ones.

I second this. But, as shown in the photo above, I have a vintage peterson belgique with a small stem, and it's making is around the 1940-50's (the military mount version) which held just fine all those years, and when I bought it about a year ago on ebay, it held fine with my clenching routines. My corncobs seem fine too with their plastic stems for 3 years. This one, in the second day with about 5 bowls, just cracked.

 

[georged]

I second this. But, as shown in the photo above, I have a vintage peterson belgique with a small stem, and it's making is around the 1940-50's (the military mount version) which held just fine all those years, and when I bought it about a year ago on ebay, it held fine with my clenching routines. My corncobs seem fine too with their plastic stems for 3 years. This one, in the second day with about 5 bowls, just cracked.

The biggest variable regarding WHEN (how soon) a too-thin bitezone will crack or punch through depends on the slot shape (how deep and wide the "V" is) and the smoker's teeth. Where contact occurs.

If the stars align one way, it can happen almost immediately. If another, it'll take longer.

 

[cshubhra]

Pipes with large moment of inertia (Long pipes, Straight Pipes, Heavy pipes or a combination of all three) will require larger bite force to clench.

The clenching force you are applying is concentrated on a few pressure points, which when sufficiently large can crack the stem.

Rigid stems will be more prone to cracks, compared to soft stems.


This may be the reason. Also, it could just be a defect in the material.

 

[kcghost]

It seems awfully unreasonable of the dealer to not give you satisfaction, one way or the other. for damage caused by a very minimum of use.

 

[Puffaluffaguss]

It seems awfully unreasonable of the dealer to not give you satisfaction, one way or the other. for damage caused by a very minimum of use.

Especially for the price of a new Eltang fixing the stem or replacing should be a hassle-free situation. Good luck my man

 

[georged]

Law ---

I've seen and worked on many hundreds of stems, and a CRACK such as yours---as opposed to a dent that slowly became a hole via erosion from a sharp tooth---has ALWAYS been from the material above and below the slot being paper thin.

Sometimes (though rarely) the slot was made too tall. All other times the bite zone was sanded too thin.

You can end any debate by measuring the thickness of the stem immediately behind the button. Less than .140" is dicey. Less than .132" is fatal.

 

[AJL67]

Greetings everyone,

I recently bought a Eltang Arne Jacobsen bamboo pencil shank. In about 1 day of using a pipe, about 2 bowls in, the stem had a noticeable dent and a hole. moving on to the next day, smoking 3 bowls, The stem cracked into a thin hairline crack.

Is this a bite though? is it caused by a "sharp tooth" from clenching? I have many pipes with delicate stems, including small peterson pipes such as the belgqiue and the calabash speciality from the 60's that I bought estate and have used for years without issues, only scratches and the light oxidation.

I contacted the seller but he is refusing that this may be a defect and may have been a soft spot in the vulcanite. Instead, he is pressing it as a tooth bite through, although the crack is a hairline rather than a circular spot. Also, it happened in just 2 days, around 5 bowls total.

pictures attached for reference.

View attachment 218740View attachment 218741

I will say that clenching a p lip stem is quiet different and you're teeth wouldn't be in the same spot or mb even have the same pounds of bite pressure .. at least i kind of think that looking at the two stems and you saying you use your molars more.

Thank you @georged for your explanation of stem thickness and cons of that, learn something new here every day. Gracias.

 

[Browny]

Seller refusing this to be a defect is seriously bad form in my books.
How can 2 days or 5 bowls honestly be all on the user.

Is this from Eltang direct or someone else selling a new pipe of theirs ?