Balkan Sobriane & Esoterica; What's the Deal?

[btp79]

The truth is it regrows hair. Sorry, the secret is out now.

 

[hoipolloiglasgow]

Today I learned I like gas infused puppy farts -TROPHY ACHIEVED- But seriously, I really dig Germain's Balkan Sobranie. Not as an attempt at being a replica of something, but as it's own stand-alone thing. IMO, it's worth trying, especially if you can find it on a BM shelf. Same with Esoterica.

Smoke everything you can and decide on your own. Our palates, senses, preferences, and experiences are all so incredibly unique and different. If I listened to all the negative reviews of various tobaccos, I'd be missing out on so many blends I love. In fact, when something is polarizing, I know I need to try it. On the flip, so many praised baccys have been utter disappointments to me. Forums, Social Media, and Reddit are all echo chambers when it comes to whether something is good or not, or whether something is worth it or not.

Like RookieGuy mentioned, try your BMs before paying secondary. Keep in mind that Esoterica is highly allocated and BMs usually have to buy X of something (usually something shitty) to get a tiny allocation. For example, one of my BMs has to buy X amount of basket pipes to get a few tins of Esoterica. So if you see it, don't be an asshat and buy every single tin. Leave some for the next person.

But that's the problem - It's the same type of people that swoop in and buy all the Eagle Rares, OpusX, NVIDIAS, and Srirachas. Add in the temptation of selling a ~$45 bag of Stonehaven to China for $500+. To feed the fire, India's luxury market is on track to be the next to big boom, so that will be interesting.

Sable's spot on regarding "Psychopathy Of Scarcity". Damnit, even Sriracha is becoming allocated. There are now -get this- FB secondary markets for Sriracha. But I hear the receipe changed and isn't as good as it used to be.........

Echoplex, you must play guitar? That's a fine piece of equipment right there. I love tape echo. I just recently smoked a sample of Balkan Sobranie and enjoyed it. Was a unique blend, like all the Germain's I've had so far.

 

[Butter Side Down]

In my opinion this isn't an entirely new phenomenon. When I first started (not as long ago as SableBrush, but still a good while back), people would shell out ridiculous sums of money for GL Pease Bohemian Scandal and Renaissance as well as Balkan Sobranie. I fell for the FOMO (although there wasn't an acronym at the time) and joined in, spending far too much of my hard earned dollars to score some. In my experience, all those bends were... fine... pretty good. Worth the money I spent? All I can say about that about that is that I didn't do it twice.

Fast forward 20ish years, now the same thing is happening with Germains and Esoterica and others. Do I love Penzance? Absolutely! Enthusiastically! Undeniably! Will I pay $400 for a tin of it? Um. Nope. Is there an amazing, under the radar, exact ringer? Nope, sorry. Do I care? Somewhat. But I'm not losing any sleep or shedding any tears over it.

My advice is to live in the times you live in. Don't get sucked into someone else's nostalgia. Try what's available now. Somewhere in there you'll find your ideal tobacco (or two or three). When you do, buy an amount that is mathematically reasonable to cellar, not an amount that seems emotionally justifiable (i.e. What if I live to be 1,000 years old? What if I'm the only person to survive the apocalypse and there's no more tobacco, ever?). Eventually, maybe, you'll run out of your supply. At which point, do not spend all your time online lamenting how nothing is as good as (insert your favorite discontinued blend here). If you do, you'll just be driving up the price, putting it further out of your own reach.

 

[PipeIT]

@sunnysmokes If you want to try some, without paying a fortune from the scalpers, go to google and type in as an example;

North Carolina tobacconists

Then start calling the shops you see,

I have found several B&M across the USA with Esoterica/Germain’s blends still in stock.

Stuff is still out there, just have to call around.

 

[Butter Side Down]

Circling back around to this with a few new thoughts...

Part of the reason I've pretty much given up on Germain and Esoterica tobaccos at this point is that I've been down a very similar road before with the Buffalo Trace antique collection whiskies.

For the first two years after it was introduced, I was able to get bottles of Sazerac 18YO with ease for about $50. Then popularity (admittedly well justified) totally overtook what was already a limited supply. Now it sells out within minutes of when it becomes available at the MSRP of $75. Then 10 minutes later, you can find as many bottles as you like in the post-retail market for $2,000.

So your options are either 1) Get incredibly lucky, 2) Heavily bribe a liquor store employee to hold some for you... I mean what's $750 in someone's palm going to hurt you when you're still going to make $1,250 on the bottle, amirite? 3) If your ethics preclude that, then you can pay $2,000 to someone who didn't have the same compunction. That is, if you can afford it. And if you can, good for you! I'm not at all jealous of you million dollar a year income. Nope. Not at all. Except definitely a little bit. 4) Find something else to drink that's probably still pretty good that doesn't ruin your life. If you can't tell, I've chosen option 4.

 

[Skippy B. Coyote]

As a relatively new pipe smoker who's been smoking just over a year and has a taste for burleys and fine aromatics I'd love to get my hands on some Stonehaven to try, but I know that's not terribly likely to ever happen unless I end up either getting extraordinarily lucky walking into a brick and mortar tobacconist or befriend a gregarious fellow pipe smoker who wouldn't mind sending a couple pipefuls of it my way for $20 or so. Luck has never exactly been my strong point, but hey, it could happen!

Realistically though I know it's pretty unlikely that I'll ever get my hands on any, and I think I'll be perfectly fine if I never get to try Stonehaven or any of the other Esoterica blends. If there's one thing I've learned from my time smoking a pipe (other than patience, at least) it's that there are literally a thousand or more pipe blends out there to try; and no shortage of readily available and thoroughly enjoyable blends to explore. I could probably try 2 or 3 new blends a month for the rest of my life and never run out of new tobaccos to try, and I already have my half a dozen or so favorite blends that I feel like I'd be pretty content if they were all I ever smoked.

It's a big world of pipes and tobacco out there, so I'm not going to get hung up on one blend when there are a thousand others to enjoy. If I do get to try Stonehaven someday then that would be pretty wonderful, but there's already so many delightful blends to choose from that don't require extraordinary luck or a small fortune to enjoy that I think I'll be just fine without it.

 

[PipeIT]

@Skippy B. Coyote look back up at my post and do that!

There is a lot of Esoterica/Germain’s out there. I found quite a bit in only 15 minutes calling around.

Spend time and you’ll find some.

 

[Dreadlock Holmes]

Esoterica only produces very limited quantities that typically sell out within minutes of being released by retailers. The price is being driven by low supply and high demand, mostly in China. Balkan Sobraine is also very hard to find so low supply drives high demand.

Hol'up. Esoterica is that popular with Chinese pipe smokers?
What suggests this, and are they actually consuming all of it or reselling?

But that's the problem - It's the same type of people that swoop in and buy all the Eagle Rares, OpusX, NVIDIAS, and Srirachas. Add in the temptation of selling a ~$45 bag of Stonehaven to China for $500+. To feed the fire, India's luxury market is on track to be the next to big boom, so that will be interesting.

Sable's spot on regarding "Psychopathy Of Scarcity". Damnit, even Sriracha is becoming allocated. There are now -get this- FB secondary markets for Sriracha. But I hear the receipe changed and isn't as good as it used to be.........

On the Sriracha note, the lack of it made me try some new stuff, like Three Mountains Yellow Sriracha. It's different, but interesting compared to Red.

 

[sablebrush52]

Hol'up. Esoterica is that popular with Chinese pipe smokers?
What suggests this, and are they actually consuming all of it or reselling?

On the Sriracha note, the lack of it made me try some new stuff, like Three Mountains Yellow Sriracha. It's different, but interesting compared to Red.

The owner of one of the B&Ms where I bought most of my stash over the years told me that they sell their remainder stock to a Chinese agent based in Texas and that others do the same. Also, a couple of members told me that have acted as go between s for B&Ms and Chinese agents. This apparently has been going on for years.
The stuff may sell out at online retailers but some of it often sits on shelves at B&Ms for weeks or longer with no demand. So, after their regulars are taken care of they sell the remaining stock for a greater profit. A few B&Ms just unload their allotment to agents at higher than retail prices. How widespread is this? I have no idea.
But I have observed that the market for this stuff has become more competitive in the past few years. I’ve approached by Chinese buyers but am not interested at this time.
Why would things be any different than any other hot commodity?

 

[hoipolloiglasgow]

I doubt a lot of brick and mortars sell to China...and I personally would never sell anything to anyone in China, tobacco or anything else.

 

[Dreadlock Holmes]

The owner of one of the B&Ms where I bought most of my stash over the years told me that they sell their remainder stock to a Chinese agent based in Texas and that others do the same. Also, a couple of members told me that have acted as go between s for B&Ms and Chinese agents. This apparently has been going on for years.
The stuff may sell out at online retailers but some of it often sits on shelves at B&Ms for weeks or longer with no demand. So, after their regulars are taken care of they sell the remaining stock for a greater profit. A few B&Ms just unload their allotment to agents at higher than retail prices. How widespread is this? I have no idea.
But I have observed that the market for this stuff has become more competitive in the past few years. I’ve approached by Chinese buyers but am not interested at this time.
Why would things be any different than any other hot commodity?

I dunno. I don't think of pipesmoking being that common these days. However, China has well over a Billion people. Approximately 16% of the world -maybe there are untold millions of pipemen in that country alone looking for Penzance or something.

 

[EchoPlex]

Hol'up. Esoterica is that popular with Chinese pipe smokers?
What suggests this, and are they actually consuming all of it or reselling?

The luxury market there is booming and it is becoming more common to ship these types of high-demand items to a Chinese forwarding company on either US coast - basically, a normal US address with the buyer's ID code. It goes on a boat with zillions of other goods and is eventually forwarded to the buyer in China. It is a massively popular and reliable service in China and avoids many of the inherent problems with their postal system and bypasses the people who do not sell/ship overseas. I always wonder what percentage of the TinBids stuff goes to these forwarding addresses or direct to China. Anyone that sells there know? The way I understand it, you can't opt out of selling overseas on that site, so I'm guessing a huge percentage of sales are... overseas. I also find it hard to believe that US buyers are paying those prices. In any event, with all the anti-West tension, I think it is only a matter of time before these forwarding companies get shut down, at least here in the US.

I mentioned it before, but India is up next. Pipe smoking is surging there, as is their quickly expanding demand for luxury items. Source: my neighbor is Indian and he smokes pipes. He's also the guy that got me into this hobby.

 

[sablebrush52]

I dunno. I don't think of pipesmoking being that common these days. However, China has well over a Billion people. Approximately 16% of the world -maybe there are untold millions of pipemen in that country alone looking for Penzance or something.

There are cultural differences involved as well. Whereas we buy mostly for our own personal enjoyment, a lot of the buying of Esoterica and McClelland is communal. A group of smokers, a pipe club, will pool money to make that purchase so as the satisfy their curiosity, or make a meeting special. Some buy to gift to a business associate as a way to get a deal done. From what I've been told, a lot of the activity is sharing and gifting.

 

[kcghost]

I've tried the Esoterica blends and generally they didn't do much for me. Then I tried Balkan Sobranie which is a remake of the original Balkan Sobranie. The original had a flavor beyond comparison with anything else on the market. Unfortunately, the remake doesn't measure up, but they are getting premium prices ($50 in the US) for it.
McClelland was the unusual case of a profitable company deciding to close their doors and not sell their recipes to anyone. They closed their doors and that was it. Their tobaccos which use to sell at typical prices in retail stores and online vendors now sells for over a $100 for a 2oz. tin of selected blends.

 

[RudyG]

I have taken up pipe smoking after a 40 year hiatus and years ago I smoked many of the "legendary" tobaccos that are bringing tremendous prices nowadays.

To each his own, but I've found some wonderful tobacco that is currently produced, readily available and at a sane price.

In fact, I found an old tin of Balkan Sobranie from the 60s that I had forgotten about, and it certainly isn't what it was when I first bought it. It too has faded away, just like me LOL. White Knight or Black House is certainly a finer smoke today than my old tin of BS. Although not the same, they are darn close and very enjoyable.

Save your money and enjoy what's available now.

 

[hoipolloiglasgow]

I too enjoy Black House and White Knight. I also think Margate's pretty good too, although I only purchase some when it's available at my B&M and won't pay more than 25 bucks a tin. I believe that's what Balkan Sobranie goes for too and was available just recently. It's not that big of a deal to me, there are plenty of readily available tobaccos that are great.

 

[Oddball]

I was at a B&M a week ago Monday and they had more than a few 5 packs of Margate, Dunbar and Dorchester. I passed on all but I did pick up a Pembroke for when I want it extra fruity. They also had tons of Sobranie. I didn't get any.


I will second @cosmicfolklore sentiments.


I would advise letting the suckers pay the big prices for it. For my money C&D produce more killer blends than I can fit in my pipes and they always in stock everywhere.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

Hol'up. Esoterica is that popular with Chinese pipe smokers?
What suggests this, and are they actually consuming all of it or reselling?


On the Sriracha note, the lack of it made me try some new stuff, like Three Mountains Yellow Sriracha. It's different, but interesting compared to Red.

I sold off some of my Esoterica on Tinbids a few months ago and all 6 bags went to China.

 

[coys]

The Sutliff match for Balkan Sobranie is good. I haven't tried White Knight but they are supposed to be the same.

 

[bluegrassbrian]

Today I learned I like gas infused puppy farts -TROPHY ACHIEVED- But seriously, I really dig Germain's Balkan Sobranie. Not as an attempt at being a replica of something, but as it's own stand-alone thing. IMO, it's worth trying, especially if you can find it on a BM shelf. Same with Esoterica.

Smoke everything you can and decide on your own. Our palates, senses, preferences, and experiences are all so incredibly unique and different. If I listened to all the negative reviews of various tobaccos, I'd be missing out on so many blends I love. In fact, when something is polarizing, I know I need to try it. On the flip, so many praised baccys have been utter disappointments to me. Forums, Social Media, and Reddit are all echo chambers when it comes to whether something is good or not, or whether something is worth it or not.

Like RookieGuy mentioned, try your BMs before paying secondary. Keep in mind that Esoterica is highly allocated and BMs usually have to buy X of something (usually something shitty) to get a tiny allocation. For example, one of my BMs has to buy X amount of basket pipes to get a few tins of Esoterica. So if you see it, don't be an asshat and buy every single tin. Leave some for the next person.

But that's the problem - It's the same type of people that swoop in and buy all the Eagle Rares, OpusX, NVIDIAS, and Srirachas. Add in the temptation of selling a ~$45 bag of Stonehaven to China for $500+. To feed the fire, India's luxury market is on track to be the next to big boom, so that will be interesting.

Sable's spot on regarding "Psychopathy Of Scarcity". Damnit, even Sriracha is becoming allocated. There are now -get this- FB secondary markets for Sriracha. But I hear the receipe changed and isn't as good as it used to be.........

I'm pretty close to a local tobacconist/proprietor and I e heard the horror stories. Arango in particular can be a "carrot dangler" when it comes to the more sought after blends.
Also seems to depend on the particular salesperson you get. Some are more hardline than others, or likely have "special" relationships with certain customers.

It's actually gotten worse in the last 2-3 years.