Back Door Anti Gun Law NY

[woodsroad]

T

IBTL

As a responsible gun owner, I admit this country has a firearms problem. There is ample evidence that the current abundance of weapons and ammunition is not on the path to addressing the problem. I lack good proposals for ways to keep firearms and ammunition away from the criminal, the deranged, or the irresponsible, but until we figure it out tragedies will surely continue.

The guns and ammunition have always been available. Much more available in the past. Prior to 1968, guns could be ordered directly through the mail. As a kid, I used to be able to walk into a store and buy ammo. I bought rifles at flea markets. When I was in high school, we had a rifle team. A dozen firearms, operated by kids, being fired inside the school, with no problems.
Team members could bring their own weapons to school, and they did. Now there are background checks, age restrictions and numerous other hurdles to buying and possessing firearms, yet violent crime involving firearms (and other instruments, BTW) continues to rise. What has changed? Not the availability of guns. What has changed is the acceptance of killing, the desensitization of people, mostly kids, to murder. And the fame that often gets heaped on the perpetrators. Murder has become an accepted form of problem solving by children.

I don’t have the answers, but when murder becomes a form of first-person entertainment for kids, the outcome is wholly predictable.

And, FWIW, you are still over five times more likely to be stabbed to death than shot with a rifle. And murder doesn’t even make it into the top ten causes of death. Close to 75% of preventable deaths are not intentional. So, if saving lives is the real goal, then there is a great deal of low hanging fruit out there.

Intentional Deaths Vs. Preventable Deaths - Injury Facts

Preventable injuries account for about 74% of all injury deaths in the U.S. In 2022, there were 227,039 preventable deaths vs. 75,142 intentional deaths.

injuryfacts.nsc.org

I urge everyone who is concerned about this topic to dig deep and do your research. You’ll find that what you are being led to believe, and reality, are two different things. The facts are there.

 

[telescopes]

Guns and ammo have never been the the issue. The issue is the idiot behind the hammer. Regretfully, laws can not protect us from idiots and evil inclined people but they can certainly make us more vulnerable to them by restricting our ability to protect ourselves from evil people - and idiots.

 

[Briar Lee]

One of the problems with the Second Amendment is all nine justices, have spent all their adult lives as law graduates from prestigious law schools, and their friends have similar backgrounds.

I’ll bet not a one had a grandmother who kept a loaded shotgun under her bed, or a postman who shot owls and hawks from his car window, or who shot every new gun making sure the hamlet of Bug Tussle wasn’t in the drop zone of the bullets, like I have.

In 1968 when I was ten my father bought me a $40 Winchester Model 190 at Carl’s Gun Shop near Eldorado Springs and I still have it. I wish now I’d have listened to him and let him buy me a Marlin Model 39A, but own one I bought myself.

Of the nine justices Justice Anton Scalia was likely the only modern justice who regularly used a borrowed firearm to hunt and for recreation, he was a legal genius, and he’s dead.

Justice Thomas is by far the best friend of the Second Amendment on the court and the most corrupted by associations with billionaires and the worst legal scholar.

Heller is a sublime masterpiece of jurisprudence while Bruen is such a misuse of originalism it’s hard to imagine if being published.

America had no historical limits on immigrants, until the late 1800s when Anti Chinese laws were passed. Then in 1924 Europeans were excluded, but not Mexicans.

Only in 1929 did America pass laws that penalized Mexicans who did not enter through established crossings.

To use the legal standard all new gun regulations have to consistent with be pre Industrial Revolution traditions is unworkable. There were no laws against abortion, or immigration, or narcotics, to speak of until the middle 1800s.

True gun law reform is needed. One third of urban adult black males have a felony record. One angry ex spouse and a minor domestic assault record also should not be a permanent bar to gun possession. And on the other side of the coin allowing open carry in the steel and glass canyons of New York City the same as Bug Tussle is not workable.

But the issue is so explosive, so divisive, so passionate on both sides it defies rational discussion.

Someday we’ll have to tackle it.

 

[woodsroad]

This comment about migration seems to forgot that they are represented by a Neanderthal in Congress !

Not entirely sure what you are getting at here, but I assume you are referring to Fetterman. When party allegiance is more important than the health and welfare of you, your loved ones, and the entire nation, this is what happens.

 

[ashdigger]

IBTL

As a responsible gun owner, I admit this country has a firearms problem. There is ample evidence that the current abundance of weapons and ammunition is not on the path to addressing the problem. I lack good proposals for ways to keep firearms and ammunition away from the criminal, the deranged, or the irresponsible, but until we figure it out tragedies will surely continue.

We do not have a firearms problem. Full stop.

I own guns. Have owned guns since I was 13.

I’ve never shot anyone who didn’t need shooting.

Also, all of my guns have been purchased legally and my ammo has been purchased legally.

What about the criminals who illegally buy guns. What about the criminals who can’t legally own a gun. What about the gangs that don’t give a crap.

I own several NFA Items (suppressors, SBR’s, etc.) that I had to have a full background check, fingerprints and $200 to the Feds for.

A 13 year old gang banger carrying a Glock with an auto switch didn’t do any of that.

Nope, we have a criminal problem and a weak district attorney problem.

 

[woodsroad]

We do not have a firearms problem. Full stop.

I own guns. Have owned guns since I was 13.

I’ve never shot anyone who didn’t need shooting.

Also, all of my guns have been purchased legally and my ammo has been purchased legally.

What about the criminals who illegally buy guns. What about the criminals who can’t legally own a gun. What about the gangs that don’t give a crap.

I own several NFA Items (suppressors, SBR’s, etc.) that I had to have a full background check, fingerprints and $200 to the Feds for.

A 13 year old gang banger carrying a Glock with an auto switch didn’t do any of that.

Nope, we have a criminal problem and a weak district attorney problem.

In my next life, I will be thise concise.

 

[Briar Lee]

Honestly I'm not sure that we do have a firearms problem. I think we have a much deeper problem with societal despair and apathy brought about by the failure of all our institutions over the past several decades. Our problem with firearm related violence is just a symptom of that deeper disease. At this point I'm afraid that it can no longer be fixed.

Timothy McVeigh took a rental van and a few tons of fertilizer and blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

Somebody could as easily load up a boat and destroy a hydroelectric dam.

But there’s only been one Oklahoma City.

Eugene Stoner and Aston Glock, took the basic inventions by Oliver Winchester and Sam Colt and made them many times more deadly and much cheaper to manufacture.

The majority of Americans live in urban areas. They can’t shoot at the local neighborhood range or back 40. A gun to them is usually a deadly weapon, not a lifestyle accessory or a sporting good. They will not forever tolerate unlimted over the counter sales of AR-15s and Glock type pistols to everybody who has $600 and can pass an instant check.

This nation will never eliminate or “solve” gun violence, or fentanyl abuse either.

There is not a hospital or medical doctor in the United States that cannot administer fentanyl to a dying cancer patent for intractable pain.

But can we imagine a world where fentanyl was as easily sold as an AR-15 or high capacity modern plastic Glock type pistol?

Gun violence can be reduced, never eliminated.

But the issue is so full of passion we can’t even debate it rationally today.

 

[telescopes]

The AR 15 is a thing of beauty. Its design has remained nearly unchanged in over 50 years, yet it it has evolved many, many variations over the decades mostly without changing its essential skeleton. Design wise it is plug and play. My 1964 AR-15 can swap parts with any of my more modern ARs - I can even run bolts through the grip handle that allow me to change the trigger pressure. I can swap out the gas rod for a gas powered push rod and covert it from impingement to piston driven in less than 5 minutes.

Simply put, there are no other rifles like the AR. Stoners design may look like something a plumber put together, but its basic plumbing is amazing. That is one real big reason the gun is so desirable.

 

[Briar Lee]

We do not have a firearms problem. Full stop.

I own guns. Have owned guns since I was 13.

I’ve never shot anyone who didn’t need shooting.

Also, all of my guns have been purchased legally and my ammo has been purchased legally.

What about the criminals who illegally buy guns. What about the criminals who can’t legally own a gun. What about the gangs that don’t give a crap.

I own several NFA Items (suppressors, SBR’s, etc.) that I had to have a full background check, fingerprints and $200 to the Feds for.

A 13 year old gang banger carrying a Glock with an auto switch didn’t do any of that.

Nope, we have a criminal problem and a weak district attorney problem.

The actual rate of murders per thousand and violent crime in general has actually declined steadily over the last fifty years.

When I was in law school the average time served for murder was only seven years.

But my legal assistants with children in school are worried today about their kids getting massacred.

Before too long a kid who has legally bought an AR-15 is going to shoot up a school and for several days every mother in America with a child in school will wonder if her kids are next.

That is a huge gun problem.

I own an AR-15 and a 1911 and an LCP.

All together they cost less new than this iPhone.

That is a gun problem hard to recognize.

The cheapness and universal availability of modern deadly weapons- not the keepsake and cherished firearms we grew up with-makes them as ubiquitous as a smart phone.

One in so many hundreds of thousand of people have always and will always go postal.

In the last forty years, they are much, much better armed to go out in a blaze of infamy.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

But can we imagine a world where fentanyl was as easily sold as an AR-15 or high capacity modern plastic Glock type pistol?

We're living in that world. Take a look at what's happening in Kensington, Philadelphia. Fentanyl is WAAAAY easier to get than a firearm. We're unable to solve the issue for the same reason we are unable to solve the gun violence issue. We're not willing to ask the right questions because we don't want to hear the uncomfortable truths that come along with the answers.

 

[woodsroad]

(snip)

Eugene Stoner and Aston Glock, took the basic inventions by Oliver Winchester and Sam Colt and made them many times more deadly and much cheaper to manufacture.

And yet, homicides involving guns have remained in a similar pattern for generations. Firearms homicides have often tracked illegal drug use epidemics, indicating organized crime and gang activity. Suicides account for more than half of all firearms-related deaths. But clearly, current homicide by gun rates are neither at record highs nor a historical anomaly. If you can find a chart going back to 1900 or even earlier, you would see this kind of pattern continuing. It is my experience that long-term data has been scrubbed from the internet, because short-term data looks much more alarming out of context.

Source: What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S. - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

The majority of Americans live in urban areas. They can’t shoot at the local neighborhood range or back 40. A gun to them is usually a deadly weapon, not a lifestyle accessory or a sporting good. They will not forever tolerate unlimted over the counter sales of AR-15s and Glock type pistols to everybody who has $600 and can pass an instant check.

The Second Amendment is not about hunting. It is about defending one's person and American society. It is the people in cities besieged by crime, incompetent and/or underfunded police and the political decisions of their leaders (failed education systems, businesses and other employers driven out by crime and taxes, lenient law enforcement and criminal prosecution, etc. etc.) that need a firearm for personal protection the most. Remember: the first gun control laws in this country were aimed at depriving Black Americans of self-defense.

This nation will never eliminate or “solve” gun violence, or fentanyl abuse either.

There is not a hospital or medical doctor in the United States that cannot administer fentanyl to a dying cancer patent for intractable pain.

But can we imagine a world where fentanyl was as easily sold as an AR-15 or high capacity modern plastic Glock type pistol?

Gun violence can be reduced, never eliminated.

Conflating the enumerated Constitutional right to keep and bear arms with the wholly illegal drug trade is exceptionally irresponsible on your part. Your intentional, specious argument did not go unnoticed.

But the issue is so full of passion we can’t even debate it rationally today.

I disagree. I am debating the issue rationally right now. Anyone can do it.

 

[ADKPiper]

Yeah it's horrible.
Luckily I'm all set for this season but I will be road tripping to VT.
They don't even ID for ammo sales unless they aren't sure if you are old enough.
I'll stockpile enough for a while.

 

[ADKPiper]

We don't need to speculate about the meaning behind the second amendment. The founders beliefs were clearly stated.

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!”
-Benjamin Franklin

“To disarm the people…s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
– George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

“Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.”
– James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

“For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.”
– Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
– Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

etc..

 

[woodsroad]

The problem in New York was created long ago, when the NY residents outside NYC didn't find a way to separate themselves. NY is a stunningly beautiful state. Too bad it has that hideous, cancerous growth down by New Jersey,

 

[woodsroad]

We don't need to speculate about the meaning behind the second amendment. The founders beliefs were clearly stated.

“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!”
-Benjamin Franklin

“To disarm the people…s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
– George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

“Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.”
– James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
– Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”
– Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

“For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.”
– Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
– Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

etc..

Many would argue that history is irrelevant.
They are the ones that must be watched, and contained.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905. From the series Great Ideas of Western Man

 

[captpat]

But the issue is so explosive, so divisive, so passionate on both sides it defies rational discussion.

^^^^^^ This

I grew up in a rural area of Michigan, at the time folks who had firearms were those who used them to put food on their table, venison, wildfowl, small game, etc. Folks who owned a pistol were trappers or law enforcement most of those were revolvers as hi-cap semi-auto pistols were pretty much unheard of. The idea of needing a firearm for self-defense was as outlandish as believing in green Martians. I don't recall anyone ever having a magazine that held greater than 5 rounds in a rifle as that was the limit imposed for game hunting, similarly only 3 rounds were allowed in a shotgun. The only military firearm was the occasional 1903 Springfield or 303 British. There was no need to buy ammo by the case as annual consumption hovered around 20 rounds, and that included time spent on the range before hunting season. We didn't have metal detectors in our schools, nor did we practice active shooter drills. Reasonable control and behavior are possible we have to grow up and stop listening to those folks on the extreme ends of the spectrum.

 

[admin]

IBTL