Artisan Pipes & Long Term Value

[newbroom]

I acquired most of my pipes from ebay auctions. I started buying the first year I started pipe smoking and bought what I thought might be either of value to me as smokers, or that I could reasonably bail out on by selling them on ebay myself....

I'm still in the acquisition stage. 8O

 

[mso489]

The rare violin comparison suggested a lot of Stradivari and other fine violins are kept by collectors who don't play. Maybe so. But being a failed childhood violinist (I wanted to play the trumpet) I learned that the rare violins are mostly sold, donated, or otherwise commended into the hands of the best violinists because they must be played regularly and in a demanding way to keep their tone. If you put them in a museum case, after some years, they will no longer function with full resonance. Hence they get hauled around the world, stolen, sometimes retrieved, but not often put in safe deposit boxes or vaults. I had a grad school friend who inherited a Strad that was stolen from the backseat of her car. As for my musical career, I eventually learned to play the harmonica self-taught.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

...and not every Stradivari is going to go up in price.

 

[gloucesterman]

Pipes seldom return their initial cost in the secondary market. For every one that might, thousands don't. And even artisan pipes are produced in significantly higher numbers than rare violins. As always demand drives pricing. It's doubtful there will ever again be enough demand to sustain current pricing structures. There will always be the exception of a historically significant piece but as a rule pipes are consumables not investments and if tobacco keeps getting more expensive (as in Europe) there'll be even less demand, resulting in lower prices.

 

[cigrmaster]

So far of the up and coming artisans I have seen, none will be the next Bo Nordh, they just don't have access to the quality of briar he did. I see a few newer artisans who are consistently putting out high quality pipes, but most are over priced average looking pipes. Just because a pipe is expensive now, doesn't mean it will command a high price years from now. So far, since Rad Davis has retired, the prices for his estate pipes has gone up some from what they were typically going for, 20 years from now, who knows. I would not buy pipes as an investment especially when I can invest in certain types of tobacco where I know the prices are going to go way up.
I bought tins for 9.00 that I know will be going for 60.00 plus in ten years. I don't know any pipe maker who is going to produce that kind of return on my investment. Now when it comes to some of the old British names like Barling, I see a much better chance at a higher return on investment especially for pipes from the 30's to 60's.

 

[iamn8]

I'm about to spend more than I've ever spent on a pipe. It's my commissioned pipe. There's absolutely no consideration given to "investment" value. The pipe is purely for my enjoyment. The reason I asked the question, I had a thought about what will happen to the pipe when I'm gone. Will it have any real value to anyone other than me? I'm no financial genius, but a pipe is something I'd never buy in hopes of increased value. As Harris said, there's far more investment value in tobacco as a resource, whereas pipes are just tools. That's why I said 50yrs, meaning beyond our life.

 

[philobeddoe]

It's hard to guess....with more states legalizing marijuana and eventual Federal legalization; pipes may get more use than they do now. Bowl size will certainly shrink, anything above group one in size may lose value, as tobacco becomes harder and harder to purchase. Unfortunately, I think the overall outlook for tobacco use is grim, I think you will still see hand rolled cigars in 50 years, but I think any other form of tobacco will be either banned or replaced by Mary Jane. The antis are eventually going to ban cigarettes altogether, I think smokeless tobacco as in dip, chaw, snuff and Snus will be next on their agenda, then vaping. I think tinned pipe tobacco will go under the radar, by clinging to the hand rolled cigar crowd for as long as possible, but loose pipe tobacco will become harder to buy as they phase out cigarettes, the roll your own crowd has doomed all loose pipe tobacco I fear. 50 years from now I think pipe smoking, as we now know it will be relegated to geezers with big stashes, therefore all pipes will lose value, with well known brands and makers staying valuable the longest.

 

[iamn8]

I think the nice pipes, as with all nicely made "things", will hold a good value. People collect all sorts of things that they never use. Even when tobacco is long gone, nicely made pipes will still be collected if for nothing more than mementoes of a time long since passed. Masterfully hand-made objects are/will always be collected.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Yes, yes it is. You just do what you want. I love to look at a beautiful pipe collection. We just gave you our opinions.

 

[iamn8]

Cosmic, if I wanted your opinion, I'd give it to you.
No seriously, "yes" what is?

 

[moriarty]

I would never think this way about pipes. It's easy with hindsight to think it was a good idea twenty years ago to buy Bo Nordh pipes, but they were very expensive even then and I bet there were plenty of other expensive pipes that are worth little now. Who could know back then how the interest in Scandinavian pipe makers would have developed, or that we'd still find that style attractive, or that Rick Newcombe would have come along and got Americans so excited about these particular pipe makers from a small area in northern Europe?
Likewise, why would anyone believe that fifty years from now anyone will have the faintest idea who Bo Nordh was? How many pipe makers from the 1950s or 1960s can you name? Things will have changed and it is impossible to predict what demand there will be for old pipes or which ones might be sought after (if any).
There's no way to guess what these things will be worth in the future.

 

[pitchfork]

I don't know if Nate was asking for investment advice, per se, but it is fun to speculate whether today's pipe makers will be as collectible as some of the Great Danes, Dunhills, etc. Not in terms of price so much as where the hobby will be in a few decades. Will anyone much care about the many dozens of great pipemakers working today? Will their names be recognizable outside of a few specialized collectors? I wonder. There are only a handful of Great Danes, but there are literal dozens of artisan pipemakers today, many of them putting out high-quality pipes. Once these guys (and gals) are retired and no longer doing shows, I wonder whether their reputations will last or whether their pipes will be the equivalent to today's average $50 estate pipe. Will be interesting to see.

 

[moriarty]

Agreed. Personally, Chris Asteriou is the only guy who really excites me and who can make any style of pipe he wants to with a deep understanding of how it should be and the ability to execute it exactly. If Chris chooses to continue making pipes then he could be great. But maybe when the Greek economy picks up he will stop and go back to being a full-time architect, and then his pipes will be forgotten quickly. Michael Parks might hold people's interest long term as well, and his style is distinctive and high quality.
Otherwise I think there are lots of people who get talked about as the next big thing for a couple of years and then aren't. I think you have to be aware of these fads and not believe any of the hype. All you can really try to do is look at a lot of pipes, try to develop an appreciation of what makes the best ones right and the other ones not quite right, and then make up your own mind.

 

[iamn8]

I'm guessing nobody here watches Antiques Roadshow?

 

[pruss]

Chris Asteriou is the only guy who really excites me and who can make any style of pipe he wants to with a deep understanding of how it should be and the ability to execute it exactly.

While I would never challenge you on what excites you, I think that your thought that Chris Asteriou is the only guy, "Who can make any style of pipe he wants to with a deep understanding of how it should be and the ability to execute it exactly," is pretty narrow.
Some others who come to mind...

- Michael Parks

- Jess Chonoswitch

- Tonni Nielsen

- Smio Satou

- Tom Eltang

- Todd Johnson

- Adam Davidson
Actually... the fact that you said, "make any style of pipe he wants," makes this a longer list than I initially thought.
We could probably add more.
-- Pat

 

[iamn8]

Agreed Pat! There are carvers who appeal to my own aesthetic performances, but I'm still fully able to recognize the greats abilities and contributions, personal preferences aside. "Make any pipe he wants..." Is a sweeping statement which goes against the grain.

 

[moriarty]

I don't know, Pat. Asteriou makes wonderful pipes in the traditional English, Danish, and modernist, geometric styles. He seems to me to be equally accomplished and authentic in all of these styles. And VERY highly accomplished, even though he hasn't made pipes for many years yet. I don't feel any of the pipemakers in your list have the same versatility, except Jess, although they are all great at what they do. To be honest, I wasn't thinking about Jess because he is one of the acknowledged greats and I thought the OP was about the newer pipemakers who may succeed them. I think Chonowitsch pipes are as close to perfection as I've seen, and I would say he is highly versatile as well.
I think you may be using my phrase "any pipe he wants" as a way to limit the extent of the pipemakers' abilities. As though not wanting to make a style of pipe renders the skill to do so irrelevant. That wasn't my meaning at all.
Anyway, it's only an opinion, but I really do think this. I have pipes by everyone you listed except Satou, Johnson and, of course, Jess (out of my league, I'm afraid).

 

[newbroom]

I'll put up Lee Von Erck, J.T. Cooke, Mark Balcovek, as artists whose work will keep value.

 

[pruss]

I think you may be using my phrase "any pipe he wants" as a way to limit the extent of the pipemakers' abilities. As though not wanting to make a style of pipe renders the skill to do so irrelevant. That wasn't my meaning at all.

Interesting. My read on "any pipe he wants" was that the phrase actually expands on the list of carvers to include because it opens a Pandora's Box of choice for the pipemaker... but that's a rabbit hole we don't have to go down. I think I get your drift.
I have no way of knowing what your familiarity with the work of Michael Parks is, but I'd encourage you to look again in regard to his work. While his work tends to be more from the English/French school, his versatility is boundless. I think he's close to the top of the heap.
-- Pat

 

[moriarty]

I won't argue with you about Michael Parks, Pat. One of the best, and a definite favourite for me. I did say in my first post that I thought his work might endure and he was the one I mentioned along with Asteriou. I have the impression we don't really disagree on any of this, but we're making fine distinctions and using slightly different definitions to frame our answers. My only distinction here is that, while Michael is indeed very versatile, I think Asteriou captures the spirit of, say, English pipes more authentically. It's difficult to really explain myself and I may be wrong. Parks owns the Dunhill 120 style nowadays, I believe that.
I'd also love to add Larry Roush, who is my favourite US pipemaker. He does his own thing and I guess perhaps he doesn't market himself much and is less well-known as a result. And I know his style doesn't click with everyone. But I think my Roush pipes may be the ones I will treasure the most, long into the future. It just feels special to smoke one, and his quality is absolutely consistent. I don't think he'll ever be as widely appreciated as he deserves, or sought after like the great Danes are.