Artemis Project: Why?

[mawnansmiff]

More to your point Jay, I firmly believe humans or, at least many of them, have "restless feet" and yearn to explore the unexplored, the bottom of the sea, the other side of the mountain and space. Further, I believe the urge is innate in many. When younger and haler, I was often found chasing the horizon in my neighborhood and the globe. I've only really settled as my heart weakened. Now my curiosity must be satisfied with books. It's a sad existence for the most part but, better than the alternative.

Warren, I'm afraid you have totally missed my point.

Yes, of course we should delve into unknown places to help us understand things, as a race we've been doing that since the year dot and so should we continue.

However, there has to be a limit on expenditure spent on something such as landing on the Moon again for seemingly to put one over China as was revealed on the news last night. That money could be far better spent in sorting out problems that we as a race have caused down here.

Also, they say their intention is to set up a colony to then look into launching from the Moon onto Mars! If you were a man still in your 20's would you volunteer to be a guinea pig and go live in a series of interconnected metal tubes for several months, living on dehydrated food in a bag? I know I wouldn't. I like to open my front door and see the grass on the ground, hear the birds chirping in the trees, smell the flowers.....you would have to give all that up.

@georged & others have suggested the private sector should take over the financing any such programmes....I would feel much more comfortable with that as they would be gambling their own cash.

Regards,

Jay.

 

[georged]

FWIW, one of those unanticipated bumps in the road along with Moon dust, going blind, cosmic radiation past the Van Allen Belt, and etc. is the simple fact that a crew-sized group of humans are incapable of remaining in a confined space for a prolonged time.

By "incapable", I mean they kill each other.

When they realize they are well and truly beyond the reach of Earth-based authority, they switch it off and go rogue (so to speak), and then go insane. The killing starts soon after that.

When your species evolved to procure food with pointy sticks and thrown rocks---all outdoors---while working in small teams, being crowded into a sensory and communication deprived tiny box for a long time is intolerable. The End.

Arthur Clark, Robert Heinlein, and those guys are doubtless crying in their graves, but reality is what it is.

 

[bluegrassbrian]

...when those monies could be better spent sorting out the problems on this planet rather than trying to colonise another.

Regards,

Jay.

That's awfully rich coming from an Englishman.

Just kidding Jay, I always enjoy your posts (especially the peeks inside your ancient tomes)!

 

[warren]

Our tax dollars are spent on worthy projects as well as the nonsensical depending on one's political persuasion. But, what is nonsensical or worthy depend entirely on ones personal viewpoint. I detest government handouts unless there is means testing. I abhor "big/bloated" government. I abhor government oversight into all facets of life. But, again that is my position. It's only recently certain individuals have amassed the fortunes required to fund such endeavors.

You and I obviously disagree on how intrusive one's government should be. Such differences are to be expected and, hopefully civilly debated. But not here as politics are to be avoided at the request of the site's owner. We've overstepped the rules I believe so IBTL.

while working in small teams, being crowded into a sensory and communication deprived tiny box for a long time is intolerable.

Ah, but, if suspended animation is, at some future time, available, then that problem is solved. But, human nature is not to be taken lightly in any endevor. Which is exactly why ship captains of yore were extraordinarily endowed with extraordinary powers. Space travel in the foreseeable future future includes some "hands on" abilities in the crew. One of these days, I believe, the crews will be in suspended animation, totally unneeded for the operation of the craft. Then, roused at the completion of the voyage they perform their duties as laid out. Certainly not in my lifetime but, perhaps the time of my great grandchildren. In fact I would presume such. Do not dismiss those men in sheds.

 

[georged]

Do not dismiss those men in sheds.

Looks like a lot of 'em go haywire upstairs and end up dead, too.

David Hahn - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[brian64]

those monies could be better spent sorting out the problems on this planet

Most of the failures to "sort out" our problems have nothing to do with lack of funds.

Government is much more proficient at creating such problems than at fixing them...and its solutions typically create even greater problems than the ones allegedly being addressed.

 

[georged]

Government is much more proficient at creating such problems than at fixing them...and its solutions typically create even greater problems than the ones allegedly being addressed.

Always has been and always will be.

It's because such a high percentage of those who want to be in charge are hardwired in a particularly odious way.

Shrinks refer to them as narcissistic Machiavellian sociopaths. A combination known as the Dark Triad.

From HOA boards and PTA committes at the bottom, up through city level, state level, federal level, and global level positions of authority (both formal and de facto), the most capable of them rise to the top.

Meaning the people in charge on Planet Earth (this personality type exists in all cultures) do what they do to please themselves. No one else. In fact, if hurting large numbers of people happens to be a side effect, they don't care. Literally don't care. They can't care. (That's what a sociopath is.)

World history as we know it is what follows.

 

[Briar Lee]

As we speak, if the USA decided to have a huge sale and sell everything (except of course the military and the gold in Fort Knox and federal lands and the post office) as a nation we are worth maybe 500 trillion, give or take about 100 trillion

We earn 25 trillion a year on the books, about a 5% return, and we owe 150 trillion total, of which 30 trillion is federal debt.

90 billion for a moon shot is sort of like taking a long Labor Day weekend vacation.

I was just a kid when we put a dozen men on the moon and landed every one back safe at home.

The old men said that would break us, but it hasn’t yet.

We need to spend about trillion or thereabouts on deferred maintenance, but it’s always an election year or the year before an election so Congress does moon shots and avoids harder questions like fixing up the roads and bridges we inherited.

https://www.volckeralliance.org/sites/default/files/attachments/Americas%20Trillion-Dollar%20Repair%20Bill%20-%20Capital%20Budgeting%20and%20the%20Disclosure%20of%20State%20Infrastructure%20Needs.pdf

 

[brian64]

Sorry, Smiff, but I'm a member of the governed class and am not consulted on these things.

Says Hugo Drax.

 

[swampgrizzly]

I won't debate the worthiness of NASA programs, but I will tell you all that I wouldn't won't to live without my memory (temper) foam mattress and pillows! The development of which was funded under a NASA contract in 1966.

 

[Pipingntrucking]

For those saying trying and failing is not worth the effort, bare in mind for the longest time there was the idea that a human could not survive travelling faster than what a horse could run.

 

[Hillcrest]

I haven't been following this issue, but I would be curious to know what the conspiracy theorists say it is all about. It seems lately they have been proven more correct than not.

 

[Kobold]

All I know is that I loved getting astronaut ice cream when I went to museums when I was a kid.

 

[scloyd]

All I know is that I loved getting astronaut ice cream when I went to museums when I was a kid.

Me too! I wish it was available in chocolate only.

 

[hugodrax]

Says Hugo Drax.

Yes. I've tried this sort of thing and it didn't work.

 

[Chasing Embers]

For those saying trying and failing is not worth the effort, bare in mind for the longest time there was the idea that a human could not survive travelling faster than what a horse could run.

I rarely if ever travel more than fifteen miles from my home.

 

[mso489]

For a nostalgia trip to the U.S. space program, there's nowhere better than the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, with everything from Lindberg's Spirit of Saint Louis to examples of all of the orbiting and moon landing vehicles.

My late wife and I went there in the 1980's one crowded summer day and throughly enjoyed it. But I joked, as we left, that now all I wanted was ... air and space.

 

[Briar Lee]

Two things, America has lost.

During the sixties, even to the seventies, when there was a heavy weight championship boxing fight the entire nation paused, to listen to it. Some folks watched from satellite locations.

A few years ago I watched a heavyweight championship and it sucked. No drama. It wasn’t the same. No wonder we quit caring.

The other thing we’ve lost is when America had men up in orbit or going to the moon, the entire nation talked of nothing else, even the old men in the barbershop that said it was a waste of money.

After the Apollo program, only science lovers watched.

We’d been to the moon.

After that, who cared when they shot one off, unless it blew up?

 

[warren]

After that, who cared when they shot one off, unless it blew up

I'd guess the thousands of people who trek to the launching pad to watch. Then there are the millions who pay close attention even when a launch isn't televised. Your wee neck of the woods does have TV and newspapers doesn't it?

 

[Briar Lee]

I'd guess the thousands of people who trek to the launching pad to watch. Then there are the millions who pay close attention even when a launch isn't televised. Your wee neck of the woods does have TV and newspapers doesn't it?

I read them, but the current ignorance of rural Missourians is staggering.

Cable news, destroys literacy.

I’ll bet three out of four adults today in rural Missouri couldn’t find Ukraine on a map.

Walter Cronkite is a long time dead.

There is a war against science, literacy, and traditional culture.

The barbarians are winning.