Are We Too Casual?

[K.E. Powell]

As to the OP's grievance specifically: I actually agree that people are probably a little less civil and certainly more casual than they were, say, in the mid-20th century. I mean, I'm generalizing a great deal here, but I'd be willing to agree with that sentiment. I mean, I can't get behind bristling at someone who tells me to "have a good one," as that is just exceedingly snobbish and fragile. But broadly speaking, yea, I think many people are a bit less polite and compassionate than they should be. That's fair.

But that also includes everyone, not just younger folks. I see PLENTY of 55+ people who are slovenly, rude, and cellphone addicted. They, too, are living in a neoliberal hellscape that has destroyed labor unions and worker protections, assaulted consumer protections and rights, and suffer under a society that isolates them physically while overly connecting them digitally. This doesn't even touch the deteriorating effects of mass media, the long time neglect of public services and commons, the wanton destruction of the environment, and etc. Much of our entire economy is based explicitly in providing comfort and relief for the very anxieties that the economy itself creates, and much of that "service" is centered on making it so we get what we want, when we want it, with as little human interaction as possible. As older folks love to say, "The customer is always right!" Well, so it is, and now we have it. Convenience has made us savage.

 

[El Capitán]

I enjoy dressing in slacks and a nice button up when I'm out. Occasionally I will put on a coat but long sleeves in cool weather is more than enough. I used to work retail where we had to be either clean shaven or have maintained facial hair. We also were expected to say 'You're welcome' and 'My pleasure' to customers. It's the little things that make a trip to the store an experience.

Now minimum wage jobs and the like, I do not make a big deal about their dress as Ling as they are presentable and showered. I expect them to not use colorful language either.

 

[K.E. Powell]

Oh yeah, only older folks have this tendency. Not like those younger folks who blow a gasket when you ID their gender incorrectly. That's not unreasonable at all.

If it helps you, I believe this tendency is exhibited pretty much across the board. But my point was that older folks are more likely to exhibit this tendency (and to do so loudly) precisely because they are placed out of time. It's not an insult or personal, it simply is. Times change, and with it culture, and people raised on the mores of a different time will have certain expectations and values that may be at odds with the new generation. That's why I said that I would likely fall victim to this at some point, because it is a very common thread in human history.

 

[Egg Shen]

They were somewhat anachronistic even 30+ years ago when I started wearing them with what was then work attire. Will wear them with the suit I’m having made for my daughter’s wedding this summer - I always thought they were cool but came to understand the comfort aspect vs. “accessory”. Then I discovered how great they are for hunting pants vs. a belt, especially waterproof bottoms I’ll wear over jeans or trousers that always slide down my butt if they have a drawstring - hate walking miles and hitching up all the time.

My grandfather had a pair for his hunting pants. They were red, with white letters spelling “Budweiser” . He could really pull off that look.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

If it helps you, I believe this tendency is exhibited pretty much across the board. But my point was that older folks are more likely to exhibit this tendency (and to do so loudly) precisely because they are placed out of time. It's not an insult or personal, it simply is. Times change, and with it culture, and people raised on the mores of a different time will have certain expectations and values that may be at odds with the new generation. That's why I said that I would likely fall victim to this at some point, because it is a very common thread in human history.

It does not help, because it's BS. I used your own argument and turned it on its head to show you a perfect example of how the next generation is demanding that the world cater to them, and in completely unreasonable ways. I'll try and quote Plato next time. Maybe that'll help you.

 

[WerewolfOfLondon]

Oh yeah, only older folks have this tendency. Not like those younger folks who blow a gasket when you ID their gender incorrectly. That's not unreasonable at all.

I was wondering how long it would take before gender was raised. Lol

 

[El Capitán]

It does not help, because it's BS. I used your own argument and turned it on its head to show you a perfect example of how the next generation is demanding that the world cater to them, and in completely unreasonable ways. I'll try and quote Plato next time. Maybe that'll help you.

The want everything handed to them is partially due to the loud minority. I do admit though that the number of generation z who want to be "influencers" is astounding. Being an early Millennial, we just wanted a livable wage which was originally meant to be obtainable by working for minimum wage.

 

[Egg Shen]

I believe that formality has decreased, both in attire and personal interactions. I can see the good and bad associated with both. Church attire for instance has gotten sloppier. Like if you’re not putting on your best for your creator, then who are you saving it for? However there is something to be said for comfort and sweatpants excel at that. I try to judge people by their content not their vessel…yet I feel cruddy when I wear my sweats in public. Generally I only wear them to the beer distributor and they are $55 Nike sweatpants, but I still feel cruddy.

On language, I do feel it is nice not having to sound so formal, British and fake, but at the same time I wish cretins could construct sentences without interjecting the F word constantly .

It seems hard to please everyone in these regards, and even myself.

 

[telescopes]

"No problem" is not, should not be, and never has been an appropriate response to "thank you." If someone is serving me in a restaurant where I'm paying the bill, of course it's not a problem for them to refill my glass, etc. "You're welcome" has always been the appropriate response. Better yet, "my pleasure" like the Chick-Fil-A folks do.

De nada

 

[K.E. Powell]

It does not help, because it's BS. I used your own argument and turned it on its head to show you a perfect example of how the next generation is demanding that the world cater to them, and in completely unreasonable ways. I'll try and quote Plato next time. Maybe that'll help you.

It may very well at that. I'm not infallible, and not above being corrected. I honestly don't know what you mean when you say you stood my argument on its head, however. But I'm not interested in upsetting you. I've no reason to.

Let me offer something that may help illustrate my point in such a way I think you would appreciate. Many years ago, I worked as a workstudy for a local museum whose purpose was honoring WWII POWs, specifically those who were POWs of Japan in Bataan. I got to meet a lot of amazing people in that line of work, and one of things I was tasked to do was digitize a lot of paper documents. Most of them were just newsletters and such, but sometimes they were things more interesting and revealing. One thing I noticed was an op-ed published in a local newspaper by a young soldier heading off to war, where he stated he felt the older generations unfairly treated his generation as being lazy and entitled. And his was not the only such place I found that sentiment expressed. The generation responsible for ridding Nazism also had to deal with older generations looking down on them. If such a generation could not meet the standard, then which, pray tell, could?

I'm not saying all older generations are entitled jerks. Far from it! Nor am I saying younger generations are all actually polite and awesome. Far from it! But what I am saying is that values and cultures change. We can debate whether those changes are good or bad, but the point I was making is that they do change, and the changing itself is often enough to provoke consternation by older generations accustomed to a different and previously established sense of norms. I am not sure why that, at least, is objectionable. But that was the point I was trying to express.

I will say, however, I do feel that people inclined to get hung up on minor colloquialisms are probably just looking for an excuse to get angry, though. That's just my two cents. If someone says to me, "Hey, no problem!" and I can tell they mean it, then hey, I can see they are trying to be kind and polite, and that is enough. I'm not going to fret because they didn't use the exact expression or somesuch. Again, to each their own.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

It may very well at that. I'm not infallible, and not above being corrected. I honestly don't know what you mean when you say you stood my argument on its head, however. But I'm not interested in upsetting you. I've no reason to.

Let me offer something that may help illustrate my point in such a way I think you would appreciate. Many years ago, I worked as a workstudy for a local museum whose purpose was honoring WWII POWs, specifically those who were POWs of Japan in Bataan. I got to meet a lot of amazing people in that line of work, and one of things I was tasked to do was digitize a lot of paper documents. Most of them were just newsletters and such, but sometimes they were things more interesting and revealing. One thing I noticed was an op-ed published in a local newspaper by a young soldier heading off to war, where he stated he felt the older generations unfairly treated his generation as being lazy and entitled. And his was not the only such place I found that sentiment expressed. The generation responsible for ridding Nazism also had to deal with older generations looking down on them. If such a generation could not meet the standard, then which, pray tell, could?

I'm not saying all older generations are entitled jerks. Far from it! Nor am I saying younger generations are all actually polite and awesome. Far from it! But what I am saying is that values and cultures change. We can debate whether those changes are good or bad, but the point I was making is that they do change, and the changing itself is often enough to provoke consternation by older generations accustomed to a different and previously established sense of norms. I am not sure why that, at least, is objectionable. But that was the point I was trying to express.

I will say, however, I do feel that people inclined to get hung up on minor colloquialisms are probably just looking for an excuse to get angry, though. That's just my two cents. If someone says to me, "Hey, no problem!" and I can tell they mean it, then hey, I can see they are trying to be kind and polite, and that is enough. I'm not going to fret because they didn't use the exact expression or somesuch. Again, to each their own.

No, you are not infallible, and if you can't see how I stood your own argument on its head, you either cannot keep up or are choosing not to do so. Better skip Plato for now if this is all too much.

Also, "to each their own" isn't proper English.

 

[K.E. Powell]

No, you are not infallible, and if you can't see how I stood your own argument on its head, you either cannot keep up or are choosing not to do so. Better skip Plato for now if this is all too much.

Also, "to each their own" isn't proper English.

Perhaps I am unable to keep up, then. I am sorry for that, and thank you for correcting my poor grammar. Have a good one.

 

[El Capitán]

No, you are not infallible, and if you can't see how I stood your own argument on its head, you either cannot keep up or are choosing not to do so. Better skip Plato for now if this is all too much.

Also, "to each their own" isn't proper English.

Correcting grammar is petty but each to their own.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Correcting grammar is petty but each to their own.

I agree it is petty (guilty as charged), but when you seek to correct everyone in the room with long-winded horse shit, it is well-deserved.

 

[El Capitán]

I agree it is petty (guilty as charged), but when you seek to correct everyone in the room with long-winded horse shit, it is well-deserved.

I take matters like that with a grain of salt. Acknowledge your rebuttal but leave it alone afterwards. To continue interacting after the fact leaves you looking less intelligent. Remember to never argue with stupid people; they will drag you to their level and beat you with experience.

 

[Egg Shen]

I agree it is petty (guilty as charged), but when you seek to correct everyone in the room with long-winded horse shit, it is well-deserved.

Can you explain how you turned his argument on its head? I wasn’t getting that. You’re always so cordial and KEP is always agreeable I am confused how the nicest most well-stated people on here are having a spat. KEP is trying to cordially bow out in his last post and you still want blood.

 

[El Capitán]

Can you explain how you turned his argument on its head? I wasn’t getting that. You’re always so cordial and KEP is always agreeable I am confused how the nicest most well-stated people on here are having a spat. KEP is trying to cordially bow out in his last post and you still want blood.

It's the stress of the holidays I believe.

 

[Singed]

No excuse, it speaks directly to the lack of courtesy and civility the op was addressing with this thread.\

P.S. There is nothing humourous about this. It's embarassing.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Can you explain how you turned his argument on its head? I wasn’t getting that. You’re always so cordial and KEP is always agreeable I am confused how the nicest most well-stated people on here are having a spat. KEP is trying to cordially bow out in his last post and you still want blood.

You're right, my behavior here has been a bit uncalled for, and I have to admit my conscience has been bothering me on this side of the keyboard.

I'll offer K.E. Powell a public apology: My tone was uncalled for and I am sorry. Let us smoke in peace.

Having said all, I'll try to politely state how I think his argument fell apart. He basically blamed older generations entirely for expecting society to cater to their whims, and I pointed out how the current younger generation is likely the worst the world has ever seen at this. It's to the point where language is being policed and lives are being ruined over it. An old fart might scoff at you as he goes out the door, but these social justice types want you as good as dead.

 

[olkofri]

the current younger generation is likely the worst the world has ever seen at this. It's to the point where language is being policed and lives are being ruined over it. An old fart might scoff at you as he goes out the door, but these social justice types want you as good as dead.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Was gonna comment about something like this in another thread where someone was bemoaning that it's the photographer ALONE who should be the judge of how good his images are. I mean, that sums up perfectly the current narcissistic mileu.