Anyone Ever Smoked Sumac?

[mawnansmiff]

Whilst searching the OED for the meaning of the word 'sumac' that I found in a fascinating 1676 book of surgery I discovered it was as a medical astringent. That was all I wanted to know.

However, I spotted it also has a second meaning which you will see below...

b. The dried leaves of any of several North American plants of the genus Rhus, used with, or in place of, tobacco for smoking. Cf. kinnikinnick n. 1.

1813 A. S. de Peyster Miscellanies 23 Sumack, red wood, and such stuff, Too mild, unmixed, to smoke or snuff.

1823 H. Ravelin Lucubrations 351 The fragrance of the Shumach from their [sc. the Sieue Indians'] pipes.

1865 Milwaukee (Wisconsin) Daily Sentinel 4 Jan. It appears that some unprincipled scoundrels mix with their tobacco large quantities of sumac.

1953 Eau Claire (Wisconsin) Leader 12 Feb. 13/5 Prehistoric Indians of New Mexico smoked wild tobacco, sumac and other herbs.

2010 Graham (Texas) Leader (Nexis) 17 Dec. The two men smoked a pipe full of chopped tobacco and sumac and talked about the situation.

First recorded in 1813, it appears to be a substitute for tobacco albeit one perhaps not with universal approval. Now I've come across kinnikinnik in texts before but never sumac so wondered if it was 'a thing' anymore and if anyone here had tried it, and if so could you describe it?

BTW, here is the entry for kinnikinnik which mentions sumac, first recorded 1792...

1. A substance used by some North American Indian peoples as a substitute for tobacco or for mixing with it, typically consisting of dried sumac leaves and the inner bark of willow or dogwood.

1792 J. Pope Tour Southern & Western Territories U.S. 63 Their Killicanic or Sumac Leaves,..when mixed with Tobacco, emit a most delightful Odour from the Pipe.
1799 J. Smith Acct. Remarkable Occurr. 11 A pouch, which..contained tobacco, killegenico, or dry sumach leaves which they mix with their tobacco.
1817 J. Bradbury Trav. Amer. 91 They did not make use of tobacco, but the bark of Cornus sanguinea, or red dog wood, mixed with the leaves of Rhus glabra, or smooth sumach. This mixture they call kinnikineck.
1889 K. Munroe Golden Days of ’49 xxvi. 284 Put that in your pipe and smoke it, along with your killikinick.
1920 Chambers's Jrnl. 31 Jan. 136/1 The curling wisps of kinickinick smoke.
1969 Islander (Victoria, Brit. Columbia) 23 Nov. 13/2 Since their canoe had been swamped, the two pipe-smoking canoeists had been without tobacco. They used kinnikinik..which the Indians smoke.
2006 Australasian Jrnl. Amer. Stud. 25 41 Stemteema prepares in ceremonial fashion for each story telling by..smoking a pipe of tobacco, or kinnikinnick.

Regards,

Jay.

 

[Hillcrest]

Interesting. But at certain times of its growth its oil can lead to blisters and an itchy rash called Poison Sumac, like Poison ivy, or poison Oak. Before handling its best to know when that time is and what parts of the plant to avoid. I did have Sumac Ice Tea (made from the berries) as a child at a country fair ... its an acquired taste ... of course when its hot and you're thirsty .... It grows like a weed in the 'newer' England (). The indians also used to smoke the dried leaves of the mullein plant. You have to shave the silica off the leaves first though before drying ... its a natural bronchial dialater and has some other medicinal benefits and uses as well. Its a beneficial weed.

 

[mawnansmiff]

Fascinating Hillcrest, thanks for clueing me up. I assume your sumac iced tea was sweetened as it is apparently very bitter in all its forms though perhaps less so in the fruit?

Regards,

Jay.

 

[Streeper541]

No. I generally try to avoid things when my first thoughts usually involve the question ... "isn't that poisonous?"

 

[Hillcrest]

Fascinating Hillcrest, thanks for clueing me up. I assume your sumac iced tea was sweetened as it is apparently very bitter in all its forms though perhaps less so in the fruit?

Regards,

Jay.

Yes, it was made by Benedictine Nuns at an Abbey with enough sugar to cause your teeth to spontaneously drop out ... but kids tend to be more immune to that ! Also I typed silica but meant cilia ... the leaves of mullein have little hairs on them 'cilia' ... I hadn't had all my daily doe of coffee yet !!

 

[Hillcrest]

No. I generally try to avoid things when my first thoughts usually involve the question ... "isn't that poisonous?"

Now there's a good Rule of Thumb for all !!! ?

 

[CoffeeAndBourbon]

Interesting. But at certain times of its growth its oil can lead to blisters and an itchy rash called Poison Sumac, like Poison ivy, or poison Oak. Before handling its best to know when that time is and what parts of the plant to avoid. I did have Sumac Ice Tea (made from the berries) as a child at a country fair ... its an acquired taste ... of course when its hot and you're thirsty .... It grows like a weed in the 'newer' England (). The indians also used to smoke the dried leaves of the mullein plant. You have to shave the silica off the leaves first though before drying ... its a natural bronchial dialater and has some other medicinal benefits and uses as well. Its a beneficial weed.
View attachment 139572

Completely different plant.

@mawmansmiff is talking about :
b. The dried leaves of any of several North American plants of the genus Rhus,

Poison sumac is Toxicodendron vernix

There is also a sumac used in middle eastern cooking (usually Rhus coriaria). It is used in place of vinegar. Since they are mostly Islamic, they don't have alcohol. No alcohol, no vinegar...

There are many species within the Rhus genus!

This is the problem with using common names for plants, there is a lot of overlap in names which leads to confusion.

 

[Hillcrest]

Fascinating Hillcrest, thanks for clueing me up. I assume your sumac iced tea was sweetened as it is apparently very bitter in all its forms though perhaps less so in the fruit?

Regards,

Jay.

P.S. As I recall the Sumac Punch was made from the White Berry Sumac not the Red berry Sumac (there are two types) and it was tart not bitter ... like cranberry before its sweetened. I don't know if you've had cranberry but raw it can be quite tart. Its been 45 yrs since I've had sumac punch.

 

[Hillcrest]

Completely different plant.

@mawmansmiff is talking about :
b. The dried leaves of any of several North American plants of the genus Rhus,

Poison sumac is Toxicodendron vernix

There is also a sumac used in middle eastern cooking (usually Rhus coriaria). It is used in place of vinegar. Since they are mostly Islamic, they don't have alcohol. No alcohol, no vinegar...

There are many species within the Rhus genus!

This is the problem with using common names for plants, there is a lot of overlap in names which leads to confusion.

Thank you I didn't know that ! I was always warned to stay away from sumac without further clarification. I will have to see which one are the tree like plants that grow all over my area. Thank you for the reference.

 

[CoffeeAndBourbon]

Thank you I didn't know that ! I was always warned to stay away from sumac without further clarification. I will have to see which one are the tree like plants that grow all over my area. Thank you for the reference.

You're quite welcome!
The only reason I know about it is through food (and a science geek). I love all kinds of ethnic foods - they usually have more and/or different flavors than the standard cafe stuff here in the US.

 

[Hillcrest]

Completely different plant.

@mawmansmiff is talking about :
b. The dried leaves of any of several North American plants of the genus Rhus,

Poison sumac is Toxicodendron vernix

There is also a sumac used in middle eastern cooking (usually Rhus coriaria). It is used in place of vinegar. Since they are mostly Islamic, they don't have alcohol. No alcohol, no vinegar...

There are many species within the Rhus genus!

This is the problem with using common names for plants, there is a lot of overlap in names which leads to confusion.

I googled the names and also the images ... I am way out of my depth here ... the plant images for Staghorn sumac and poison sumac look identical to me. I stand corrected and gracefully bow out knowing there is a difference even if its beyond my abilities to discern. Thank you though for educating me on this. I believe both grow in my area along the highway and treeline in close proximity to one another so I will avoid both for safety.

 

[canucklehead]

Kinnikinnik is a generalized term, not a specific plant, it roughly means "smoking mixture," although here in western Canada it is commonly used to refer to Bearberry (Arctostaphylos uva-ursi) and/or the mixture of bearberry leaves, red osier dogwood inner bark, and tobacco.

Bearberry is actually a close relative of Manzanita, which was used as a briar substitute in WW2.

 

[Hillcrest]

P.S. I did, in my youth, shave, dry and smoke Mullein leaves in a MM corncob, one time ... it really does open up and expand your lungs. I never tried it again. As for plants and food, we also made Dandelion wine, in grammar school and high school for science projects, Apple Jack, had salads with Dragon Lilly leaves, Elderberry jam, wild rasberries, wild cherries etc. There was less helicopter parenting then and my parents always insisted we follow directions and learn from whatever experiments we did. My sister was the science and botany gardening expert in the family. My great grandfather grew his own tobacco from plants acquired from a friend who was a gardener for a local world famous botanist. Much more fun than growing up today enslaved to a smart phone.

 

[pantsBoots]

Growing up around Middle Eastern folks in Detroit, I'm used to sumac berries as an edible condiment. I have never heard of smoking the leaves, but I am to understand that different peoples and different people had their own kinnickkinnick mixture. If it's smokable, someone's tried it!

 

[anantaandroscoggin]

When we bought this place in late '04, there was a small stand of Staghorn Sumac growing inside of a patch of bamboo some previous owner allowed to take root. The sumacs have since been choked off and killed by the bamboo, which I still haven't managed to eradicate.

 

[Hillcrest]

When we bought this place in late '04, there was a small stand of Staghorn Sumac growing inside of a patch of bamboo some previous owner allowed to take root. The sumacs have since been choked off and killed by the bamboo, which I still haven't managed to eradicate.

Do you remember the old Burlington Commercial with the interlocking lines ? That's how bamboo roots grow. The only thing you can do is bulldoze out the roots. I don't even think poison works but I will defer to experts on that. Good Luck. If it starts to bear fruit be careful .. rats eat the fruit and it increases their libido and gestation by 3x ! Suddenly rat invasion.... I did see a documentary on that !

 

[CoffeeAndBourbon]

Yeah, bamboo is extremely difficult to get rid of once it's established.

 

[prairiedruid]

With Staghorn Sumac the new growth has a "fuzz" on it hence the name. Poison Sumac the leaves are very similar to Staghorn but with the new growth the stems are smooth.

 

[kcghost]

No, no I haven't tried and I'm not particularly keen to try.

 

[Grangerous]

I suppose I’d give it a go over any cherry blend.