Another question about a Peterson: Fake or Real?

[john019]

So I got this pipe in a group of others online. At first I didn't think much about it. Cleaned it and posted it, and had a question asked about the model number. I looked, and couldn't find any model number on this pipe. When I looked up a little bit of info about Petersons, I saw that the "Supreme" usually had a gold or silver ban. This one does not. I don't know if there was a past repair done to this pipe, and that information was lost. Besides the Peterson's stamp, the only other stamp is on the back of the shank that is "Imported Briar". I called this a Canadian, and the bowl is 1 3/4 inches tall, but the shank is only 2 1/4 inches long from the back of the bowl to the beginning of the stem. The stem has a carburetor and looks like a replacement. I took the listing down for now pending on the verdict of if it is real or fake. Here are some pictures, if you need any others, let me know, and I will try and get them for you.

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[thesillyoldbear]

I just checked the Smokingpipes.com archive, and there's been seven Peterson "Supreme" with no band over the last eight years. It doesn't seem like the norm, but it has happened.
Hope that helps.

 

[john019]

Thank you!!!

 

[mso489]

I'm a little surprised by the "Imported Briar" stamp; I thought that was a U.S. thing, after WWII, when briar again became available for pipe makers. If this is a Peterson, the Irish also used this, maybe for the U.S. export market.

 

[georged]

Something's odd here.
It probably isn't a "counterfeit style" fake---why copy a brand with low resale value?---but besides no gold, the wood is dismally low quality grain-wise, and grain is what CAUSES a stummel to end up in the Supreme pile at the factory.
I have several legit Supremes, and this bulldog is a good example:
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[davet]

That Bulldog's a beauty :worship:

 

[doctorbob]

I might be completely wrong on this, but I have a vague recollection of a Retail outlet on the east coast that was not affiliated with Peterson's, at least towards the end of their existence. I think this pipe was american made for that store. A Peterson's but not a Peterson
Rob

 

[ashdigger]

Doctor Bob nailed it.

 

[jpmcwjr]

A factory mistake? A joke? A trial pipe spooked out by a junior employee who sneaked in and stamped it "Supreme"? A second used to try out the Supreme stamp?
The nomenclature is right on for the real Peterson's, yes?

 

[anthonyrosenthal74]

I could be wrong, but I don't believe that this is a real "Peterson" at all. As mentioned above, that's clearly not a Supreme. I've yet to add a Supreme to my collection, and if I did and it arrived with grain like that... I'd be pretty upset. The grain on George's bulldog above is what one should expect from a Supreme. Also there is no "Made In..." stamping which has varied but been in use since the early 1900's. It just doesn't seem right to me. I have to think it's a knock off.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Wow, to use the name as a joke or play on the name is one thing; to copy the logo verbatim is criminal. If this was made for a pipe shop, I wonder how many other people using the estate market have bucket or shop pipes labelled like that unbeknownst to them? That really sucks. Petes may not be high dollar, but they are definitely worth more than a shop pipe with grain that looks like that.

 

[doctorbob]

Al posted this info from Mark Irwin last year on this forum:
It is made by Peterson’s Ltd. of NY, and you’re right, it’s what is known as an “opera” pipe. Dates from the early 1960s. We tell the Peterson’s of NY story in the book. They were “related” in very vague ways to Peterson of Dublin through an interesting business alliances with Peterson of Dublin’s US importer. More about them in the book!

 

[cosmicfolklore]

WHOOPSie, I just realized that my statement about grain, sounds like I am diminishing this gentleman's pipe, and that would be ungentlemanly. I apologize. You can't smoke grain, and that is a very nicely shaped pipe. I'm glad that you are getting a story on this one, and I hope she proves to be a very good smoker for you.

 

[anthonyrosenthal74]

I apologize. You can't smoke grain, and that is a very nicely shaped pipe. I'm glad that you are getting a story on this one, and I hope she proves to be a very good smoker for you.

I don't think what you said was anything worse than what I said. It's just a matter of being honest. I mean no offense to John019 at all, but the grain is clearly less than stellar for what would be a Peterson Supreme. You're right, however, that you can't smoke grain. It could very well be a fantastic smoking pipe.
John019, as Cosmic said, I really mean no offense and don't wish to diminish your pipe. But in asking about the pipe's authenticity, the grain alone is a clear indication that it is not.

 

[john019]

Guys, no offense taken. That's why I posted it. I would rather you guys tell me the honest truth, than sell someone a pipe that is sub-par. So now I know, and that's what I'm here for. So thank you all for the brutal truth.

 

[john019]

So with grain pattern in mind, is that the only thing that would make a pipe qualify for the supreme label? Or is grain part of the equation? I guess what I'm asking is could a pipe with a not so great grain pattern still be considered a higher quality piece? Also could a pipe with a great grain pattern and no fills be considered lower quality?

 

[jpmcwjr]

Pretty much no to the first part, and yes, it could, but not that often if well made.

 

[john019]

So grain is up there as to what makes a pipe a nice pipe. I may need to start a different forum for the questions I have. Thank you.

 

[anthonyrosenthal74]

guess what I'm asking is could a pipe with a not so great grain pattern still be considered a higher quality piece?

If the pipe is well manufactured, the grain is going to determine greatly the pipes grade. So a perfectly drilled and shaped pipe may still be a low grade.

Also could a pipe with a great grain pattern and no fills be considered lower quality?

If the drilling is off center, or the pipe isn't crafted or shaped well, then yes.