An Oddball Sasieni 2nd "HANDS" , Any Additional Info?

[misterlowercase]

Recently came across this oddball,

nary a trace of "HANDS" info to be found,

I only saw a couple of mentions in passing and not much else.
Can anybody shed some light on the mysterious Hands?
It's the usual rough average 46.5g Ashford weight, so it's not a "hand model" or magnum.
It's the Ashford shape, but no 88, it's marked 352.
I've noticed that the later Sasi 2nds seemed to keep their regular shape numbers, while early ones often changed them up, as noted here:

http://pipepages.com/36saspl.htm

...the Ashford is 88 all across the line, with different prefixes.

London House carries the 3 prefix but doesn't list an Ashford.
I'm thinking that this is a fairly early pipe,

what do you think?
The pat. no. 210973/23 seems to be scarce and doesn't show up too often it seems.

Here's the patent:

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=GB&NR=210973
But the stinger on this pipe looks like it's been manipulated with:

Sasieni had a very wide variety of stinger styles, a broad spectrum to match their extensive sub-brand lines and some were highly unusual...

like this:

The Hands stinger looks pretty close to this old Royal Stuart:

This is a good place to see Sasi stinger variants:

http://yeoldewasabi.blog104.fc2.com/blog-category-6.html
There is a faint logo on the stem:

The stamping is pretty crisp:

It's a pretty good lookin' little pipe...

Sasieni made so many 2nds.
Specials for tobacconists:

Benaderet's

Mark Hopkins

Lincoln Green

Owl Shop

Leonard's

John Redman

Peter Ross of Arundel

Ruchon & Herguet (Gold Star)
As well as a long list of their own:

His Royal Highness

King's Court

King's Guard

House of Lords

Coronation

Coat of Arms

Royal Stuart

Sashar

Prefect

Friar

Tweed

Hands

Ivory

Stag

Claret

The Alternative

Millennium

Super Six

Fantail

Litewate

Slendaline

Sportsman

Canadian

Oom Paul

Craven

Royal St. Bart

McDonald

Mr. Pickwick

John Bull

Alfred S.

Pickwick

Croydon

Peel Street

Trafalgar

Mayfair

Windsor

Barclay

Coventry

Waverley

Worcester

Sandhurst

Richmond

Berkekey Club

Henley Club

Old England

Englandaire

London Varsity

Lords of London
...and probably more that I'm missing

 

[ssjones]

Sasieni mysteries may never be revealed. That is a great shape and I love the Hands stem stamp. I've never seen this line before.
My Ashford (Rough Root, family era) has no shape stamp. SamCoffeeMan is bring a patent number Ashford with stinger to the Philly club meeting next week, it will be interesting to compare to mine (which is quite diminutive).
Here's a shape chart I saved, must be a later year as the price for the Old England line is now $2.75. The Ashford shape is the 788 as on the 1936 chart (which was $1.50 I believe).

 

[misterlowercase]

Thanks Al,

and I think your right about the eternal mysteries.

The dotted pipes are fairly easy to recognize, at least pre-war/post-war, but the 2nds are difficult to get a general dating on. The button on the Hands is consistent with the older style.
Sasieni didn't seem to retire many stamps, they used the same ones for years, and often in an inconsistent manner, mixing them up etc etc
Ye Olde Briars has an interesting contrast between the older Ashford shape and the newer, it seems the later one is slightly smaller and there's a bevel on the inner rim...

http://yeoldebriars.com/sasieni011.html
Just for the hell of it, here's a pic of an old magazine I recently sold off...

 

[misterlowercase]

Thanks Sam,

looking forward to see it!

::

 

[dmcmtk]

Troy, I think what is interesting is the patent is from 1923, and the pipepages catalog is 1936, which has the Ashford shape 88 listed as "New". So, was there an earlier shape 52 that was retired? I'm assuming the black and white picture is an Ashford, the most noticeable differences between the two are at the front of the bowls, and the stems. Out of curiosity, did the 1931 magazine (that you sold!) have any pictures? Did you make any copies of the content?
Dave

 

[misterlowercase]

Dave,

yeah, the patent is interesting. I've only found a small handful of examples that carry the same pat., and looking again at the pat. drawing, perhaps the Hands wasn't a stinger at all, but intended more as a reinforcement ala Blue Riband style?
Although the Ashford is listed as "new" on the 4Dot range, it does cross over the board of 2nds (in all except for HRH and LH) carrying the

-88 suffix.
It seems to me that the earlier 2nds sometimes shifted numbers completely,

like Oom Paul 15 into -80, Marlborough 12 into -26, or Viscount Lascelle 15 as Mayfair 656.
But there seems to be a few anomalies with the LH as compared to other 2nds because they shift altogether into different numbers?
Most of the 2nds keep the same suffixes across the range, except for a few of the 3prefixes which seem to change completely i.e.:
Blyth = 23 into -15, except for LH where it morphs into 306 (and oddly, the Putney shape under LH uses the same number 306!)
Smallgate = (new) into 73, except for LH = 389
Same for the Bolton and Boscomb...
...mystery, mystery, mystery.
The magazine was rubbish, a complete throwaway besides the Sasieni front cover advert which was its only merit, and it was much different than the comprehensive British tobacco journals, very thin and quite irrelevant --- but I had to find out if it was any good, and I found out it wasn't worth pursuing that particular publication any more, I sold it for what I bought it for, $10.
These are the highlights from the magazine:

...not much there, but perhaps different issues have better reporting, or at least brief articles more in line with our interests, or other American magazines may be more helpful, like the 1940 issue of US Tobacco Journal cited in N.A.R.'s Blue Riband book.

:puffpipe:

 

[dmcmtk]

I think the patented device, refers to a cannister like filter that screws on to the piece in the stem best shown in your Royal Stuart, that piece is then itself threaded into the stem. I've bought and disassembled two of these in the past, most recently on an older Friar 19, the Pembroke shape, which interestingly has the type of rustication seen on the post war Old England line. The finish was part of the reason I felt it was an older pipe.

 

[misterlowercase]

Yep, I think you're right.
btw

...finally got a Ruff Root after all this time, I've been looking for a while, ended up with a Belfast slim billy, it's quite nice with a craggy blast, but it's in need of serious clean up...a deal at $75 I reckon.

 

[fnord]

Damn, I love threads like this!
Nothing turns my head quicker than a compliment or folks discussing Sasieni segundos.
MLC, I thought I had a comprehensive list of of Sasieni seconds but yours puts mine to shame. Thank you for sharing it.
Fnord

 

[ssjones]

Well, here's another to add to the long list:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-C-S-F-Oakland-Briar-Estate-Pipe-Tobacco-Straight-Apple-By-Sasieni-/271606484496?ssPageName=ADME:SS:SS:US:1120
"CS&F", by Sasieni.

 

[mikestanley]

The CS&F was a shop pipe made for that particular tobacconist. I have a Canadian from there. It's a fine smoker, every bit as good as any of the Sasieni firsts

I've had over the years. I picked up a beautiful Ivory last year which is a really well made second. It's hard to imagine why this particular pipe (the Ivory) wouldn't have qualified as a full blown Sasieni.
Mike S.

 

[misterlowercase]

Sam - yeah, I was happy about the Belfast and surprised it went for a fair price! I must've missed the Grant's, was it a pot? Good blasts just grab me.
Love the 4Dot Rustic, it's a good looker fersure, and quite valuable too! I've seen 'em go for a hefty sum, the Ashford shape seems harder to find than others.

Thanks for the pix.

::
Fnord - good deals abound with Sasieni 2nds indeed, probably some out there yet that we don't know about, I've seen it said that some of the Belway pipes are attributed to Sasieni...
Al - good eye on spotting that one, never came across one of those.
mikestanley - appreciate the additional info about CS&F.

And you're totally right about the Ivory line, I have one and it's very nice, no flaws visible that I can detect (except for a bit of blank grain) and it has a very attractive virgin finish...

 

[misterlowercase]

Oh,

I forgot...
Here's another CS&F, with a simplified Rustic look,

http://brbpipe.ru/c-s-f-oakland-sasieni-style-apple-my-own-7/
And I thought this old newspaper advert was pretty neat,

from The Cornell Daily Sun, Volume 54, Number 142, 16 April 1934,

http://cdsun.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/imageserver/imageserver.pl?oid=CDS19340416.2.51.2&area=2&width=700&color=all&ext=jpg&key=
And,

I've posted this before, but ifya ain't read it,

it's a neat little piece,

Almost Gone With The Gargoyle:

The Mystery of Clark Gable's

Magnificent Sasieni Briars
http://books.google.com/books?id=QCHoAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA29&dq=%22almost+gone+with+the+gargoyle%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=LLYVVP_VCNaoyAS02YLoCg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22almost%20gone%20with%20the%20gargoyle%22&f=false

::

 

[ssjones]

The stem work on that CS&F is amazing.

I've been to Mayers in Ithaca NY, but sadly it was supposed to have closed in June, after 117 years.

http://m.ithaca.com/news/mayer-s-closing-after-years-of-business-in-ithaca/article_8da1c85e-d62a-11e3-8c1b-0019bb2963f4.html?mode=jqm

 

[misterlowercase]

Man, that Grant's is cool, I really like the squat bulldogs! I need to get me one.

Oddly, the last ~inch of the shank is rusticated, not sandblasted...

That's one of my nitpicks, I've grown to dislike it unless it's very well done, something about it just turns me off.
I've noticed that Charatan was a major culprit of that technique, often done poorly on their 2nds, which is a shame because more often than not their 2nds have some of the coolest craggiest blasts ever, and in that case I can overlook it.
I do have a few like that, and it's not really a big deal, but as I go on in my collecting I'm finding myself to get alot more nitpicky than I used to be...

 

[ssjones]

I've noticed that Charatan was a major culprit of that technique, often done poorly on their 2nds, which is a shame because more often than not their 2nds have some of the coolest craggiest blasts ever, and in that case I can overlook it.

Working on an ungraded Charatan 109, I discovered the same information. These were made by apprentices and known as a "Rough" grade.

 

[snagstangl]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131313855948?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Im waiting for this leather covered 88 made in france to come in.

 

[ssjones]

I almost popped for that one myself, but forgot about the auction end. A neat find.

 

[pitchfork]

Any chance "Hands" is the name of a tobacconist?

 

[sablebrush52]

Any chance "Hands" is the name of a tobacconist?

There's always a chance, but I doubt it in this instance because the word, hands, is in quotes. Sasieni used quotes for model names.
These folks never let a piece of wood go unused. Sasieni made 2nds, 3rd, and even 4ths. Plus, they a slew of pipes for stores, baskets, whatever turned a pence. I think that only Comoy had anything like this downstream process, and I don't believe that Comoy's was anywhere near as extensive.