An Alternative Way of Looking at What’s in the Tin

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rmbittner

Lifer
Dec 12, 2012
2,759
2,024
In a discussion thread about Grousemoor, @UB 40 made the following comment:

“When it comes to wine nobody would rant about different nuances in taste from year to year. Try some of Chateau Latour, Chateau Margaux or Chateau Haut Brion through the years. And even once bottled they change some for the better, some not so.

“Tobaccos and its ingredients put into „sauces“ are also a product of nature, they change in a similar way. Still the rants are going on. And of course the old mixtures, that aren’t available to most of us are considered the best. Praised like heavenly Ambrosia in the Olymp of smoke.

“Every few weeks people are nagging that Hoggarth/ Gawith isn’t doing a good job any more, rusty tins, no sauce, wrong recipes, going commercial …

“Every fresh tin of G/H I opened in the small spaceship of my daily tobacco consumption really has been an experience on its own, not found in so many other choices. Each reminding me of an art in tobacco blending, with skills grown in centuries that might be forgotten in a few decades.

“Maybe we tend to dismiss the things we can get, than to accept and appreciate the qualities ’and now, and here.’”


I’m wondering if @UB 40 is really onto something.

Given how over the last 20 years or so we’ve lost Syrian latakia entirely, seen Yenidje go from commonplace to rare, and watched as any number of blends shifted from one manufacturer to another (and another…), I’m wondering if it would all make much more sense to look at each year’s iteration of a tinned blend not as the continuation of an unbroken chain of recipe and familiar flavor but more as simply the most recent vintage of that blend, the current interpretation of a certain style.

I used “tinned blend” above because I feel that if unerring consistency—for years if not decades—is desired, then bulk aromatics should be your choice, much like bulk wines that highlight consistency as a strength. (Stokkebye’s Nougat tastes exactly the same today as it did when I smoked it as North Sea in the 1980s, when it was the most popular “house” blend sold at Tinder Box shops nationwide.) Yet in vintage wines, individual vintage-distinct character seems to be the hallmark of some of the finest bottles. Maybe it would be helpful—and perhaps less frustrating—to look at tinned tobaccos in the same light.
 
Dec 3, 2021
5,573
48,470
Pennsylvania & New York
This would be a healthy way to look at it—we're dealing with an organic product that is bound to change and have variation.

Whiskies like Lagavulin and Laphroaig use caramel colouring to keep their whiskies looking consistent; Glengoyne prides itself on not using any caramel colouring. Perception of consistency and reliability is a big selling point. Customers want to know they're getting what they expect. But, it may be an unrealistic expectation.

The increase in dated small batch releases seems like this idea being explored, announcing that this blend is unique and of a finite quantity—it reduces the expectation that it's going to taste one particular way.
 
I would love if tobacco manufacturers would treat tobaccos more like wine. Stop adding casings, and just let the leaf and the way it is treated be the flavors. Put a date stamp on each tin with crop information. Treat it like blends, small batches, and single barrels in the bourbon industry.

But, if we are talking about changes to the sauce or how much sauce, then that is different. Look at what changing the formula to Coke has done to the angst of the masses over the years. It became so difficult to discuss GHco blends for a while because everyone seemed to be writing their review from a whole different product, because they were so different with what they were adding to the sauce and how much from tin to tin. I could only imagine a I Love Lucy episode at GHco where drunken workers were just splashing the sauces around randomly. We were all reviewing the same blend, but had totally different takes on what we were tasting. Never have I seen that occur with another tobacco product on here.

Maybe they have it sorted out, but it seemed much more extremes than just differences in terroir amongst the tobaccos.
 
Whiskies like Lagavulin and Laphroaig use caramel colouring to keep their whiskies looking consistent; Glengoyne prides itself on not using any caramel colouring. Perception of consistency and reliability is a big selling point. Customers want to know they're getting what they expect. But, it may be an unrealistic expectation.
The bourbon industry strictly prohibits this. What can be called bourbon even is very limited. I know that some wine companies us sulfides to stop fermentation to better control when and where they bottle to meet demands, but the top end wineries would NEVER do that.
 

telescopes

Pipe Dreamer and Star Gazer
Even bulk tobaccos change. The Tinder Box's Crown Royal is not the same as it was in the early 80's. It is close, but there are detectable changes.

The world changes and the Mandala effect becomes more pronounced the older we get.

Gawith and Hoggarth tobaccos provide today's users a step back into experiencing tobaccos the way they use to be made and put together. That much has not changed.

Tearing apart my Grousemoor Plug, the oils and scents stain my finger tips and perfume my skin with a tobacco order that most smokers stopped experiencing decades ago. I can't simply reach into my humidor and scoop up a pipe load. It has to be a mindful thing. I have to think about it, want it, and make the time to prepare the tobacco and then let it dry enough so I can get it to take a light. A ritual begins to develop and overtime that ritual becomes a rite and an active experience and part of the customs that are me. It tames me, civilizes me, and I become more human and less mechanized.

To argue over the sauce - has its strength languished over time; is it less than what it was - is to forget that life moves on. Human memory is a fickle witness to reality. Our taste change as we age, our memories enhance the subtleties of experiences that were our youth, and the nuisances of the past become the pronounced memories we recall today.

So, I agree that ingredients change overtime and the cumulative effect of these changes means that even the same recipe written long ago when followed precisely today means the outcome will be different.

But I also think our memories of the past fool us as well.

Regardless, I am thankful that G&H is still in business. I am thankful that I can still get tobacco in plugs. There will come a time when this won't always be so.
 
Gawith and Hoggarth tobaccos provide today's users a step back into experiencing tobaccos the way they use to be made and put together. That much has not changed.
You mean... the way GH&co has made it. I wouldn't look to them as what American tobaccos used to be.

So, I agree that ingredients change overtime and the cumulative effect of these changes means that even the same recipe written long ago when followed precisely today means the outcome will be different.
You may not remember a few discussions that we had going at one time last year at a GH&co drop, and we were all discussing the same blends in them, only we all had totally different takes. As I said, I have never seen that happen on here with any other tobacco. It's not like we were discussing our memories of what 3Nuns used to be like. We were discussing what was in our pipes at that very moment.

But, I know what you're talking about. And, I agree, except to the extent of GH&co the last few years. But, they seem to be getting it together.
 
They may not admit it, but I think that everyone gives GH&co a little leeway in regearing their products. They did make a big move and brought in SG products to boot. Hey, so they got some sauce in the SG FVF a few years back, and they may be training some new tobacconists on how to apply sauce... And, like even US companies, they may not be able to get the same tobaccos anymore.... who knows... I think we could all nod and give them a chance.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
21,025
50,403
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
One big difference between fine wines and fine tobaccos is that the top vintners are making wine from the crops they tend and grow. Tobacco blenders are buying from various outside sources whose production varies. They have less control over their components than a grand cru vinyard. It would be nice to compare tobaccos to a Haut Brion or a Chåteaneuf-du-Pape but in terms of actual production pipeline tobacco is closer to Gallo, Inglenook, or Thunderbird. A specific wine will be appreciated for its differences year to year. Tobaccos are appreciated for their continuity.

And there's nothing wrong with Gallo or Inglenook, I'll skip Thunderbird, but they're a different animal than a single crop Vintage Romanée Conti. I once made a stellar boeuf bouruignon using a very rare bottle of Romanée Conti, but I'm a barbarian.

Just find blends to smoke that you like and be happy and contented to have them. That's all there really is to it.

Commercial blends used to be quite consistent from year to year, and flavorings, plus crop blending from several different years, helped maintain that consistency. These days things are different as blends get reformulated, like subbing Perique with Dark Fired, changing Virginias, etc. due to changes in supply. But whatever, if you like what you're smoking that's really all there is to it.

I disliked or just didn't care for close to 90% of what I tried over the years and I stocked what I liked and am more than content. I'm no longer buying tobaco, because there's nothing I want, much less need, beyond what's on the shelves. I'd prefer to keep pipe smoking a relaxing pastime, so "tobacco angst" gets the boot.
 

sjohnston0311

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jan 11, 2023
148
2,103
Massachusetts, USA
Certainly a good way if looking at it. I personally don't mind if there is a little variation from year to year or tin to tin. And I'm probably not enough of a connoisseur to even notice. As long as it's essentially the same, I'm good.
 
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Mark Ryan talked of doing this somewhat in NC, but that didn't tend to pan out.
You'd think with as much money as Laudsis is investing into pipes, that they would be the ones to lease a few dozen acres and grow some tobaccos for a small batch, maybe even a few single barrel releases.
In bourbons, they tend to double the price in small batches, and double it again for their single barrels.
 

bullet08

Lifer
Nov 26, 2018
10,340
41,837
RTP, NC. USA
Consistency in a product is what brings customers back, specially in US. You go to a restaurant, and your favorite dish has suddenly changed. That would be a rude awakening. That's why MacDonald is comforting to good number of people. That way people still drink Budweiser. Teas are mixed, and so are blended whiskeys all for the sake of consistency.

In certain industry, they have phrase called "level setting the customer". If early on, the customers are informed that every year the product will be slightly different, most customers will accept this. But when customers' expectation is consistent product to satisfy their comfort need, it doesn't work out well. I think most of pipe smokers have their favorite daily blend that gives this sense of comfort. When that blend changes, holy shit, all hell will break loose.