A Real Three Nuns Substitute

[settersbrace]

The reference in those ads to "Kings Head" has me curious. Anyone ever get any of that?

Was he getting "Kings Head" from Three Nuns???( I know, I know, I'll go to hell)...
I didn't even see myself walking right into that one! Lol

 

[bulletsnbriars]

Haha, all joking aside, thanks everyone for sharing their knowledge.

 

[zekest]

C & D Three Friars is said to be the closest match to the original TN recipe.

.

 

[bulletsnbriars]

Well, for whats it worth, I cant get enough of the stuff! Its delicious and strong, pleasantly spicy.

 

[timpiper]

Three nuns is a passion of mine especially after I smoked some from an old tin purchased from ebay.
Here's a post I made on smokersforums last year -
I really like my vapers and have read much about the legend of Three Nuns.
The word is that the old version is far superior than what's produced today.

The tinned version made by orlik and sold in the EU. The pouch ready rubbed version sold in the UK

and now the version made by Macbaren.
The old Three Nuns recipe contained a fair amount of perique and since around 2000? it has not contained

perique but rather dark fired kentucky instead.
If you do a google or ebay search for Three nuns you will find some old three nuns advertisements.
Notice how the focus is on the perique in Three nuns.

It seems that without perique it aint three nuns.
So I really wanted to know what the fuss was all about and started to hunt on ebay for an old tin.

It didnt take me long to realise it would be an expensive exercise.
I eventually procured some old Three Nuns from ebay which I had to rehydrate.

The aroma from the tin is amazing. I still dont know if it's the age that made it smell this good

or if it smelled like that when fresh.
No other tobacco I've had smells like this.

No other tobacco I've had smells this good.
The aroma is deep and rich and sweet and raisony and rich tobaccoey like an aged tobacco rum plum pudding.
Now I'm fan of aged Ps Luxury navy flake, with 5 years its really sublime stuff.

It is somewhat flavoured which, to me, adds to the appeal.
Smoking the old Three Nuns is like smoking the aged PS Navy but the three nuns is richer and deeper

and has a different flavouring. They are both sweet and spicy at the same time. (aged Solani 633 is also similar but without the three nuns topping)
Yes three nuns is flavoured with a superb rich tobacco enhancing flavour which adds to its appeal like it does with PS luxury Navy.
This flavouring is what makes Three Nuns unique.
So I started to extensively research three nuns. Tried all the blends that try and copy it.

The copy blends use a flavouring which try's to copy the three nuns flavouring,

but they don't get it quite right and most of them don't have enough perique in the blend.
Then I came across a post on another forum that had this link to the original recipe
Three Nuns Recipe

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/evl27a99/pdf

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/nvy96a99/pdf
Many of you would have seen this before.

I was curious to find out what was in this legendary three nuns.
That recipe is useless because the tobacco industry used code words for the casing's and additives.

Ingredients in the recipe like Molon don't actually exist.
However.
After some intensive research on the legacy tobacco library website I found a document that defines the code words.
Casings, flavourings and Additive Codes

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/vla13f00/pdf
and also found detailed production instructions.
Three Nuns Manufacturing process

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/ohz46a99/pdf
Molon (Invert Sugar) Recipes

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/ugu75a99/pdf

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/iio95a99/pdf
Recipe for denaturing demerara rum (Butite)

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/ide27a99/pdf

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/action/document/page?tid=bix57a99
They used denatured rum to avoid the alcohol taxes

I'm not sure whether this alters the flavour of the blend.
So the three nuns ingredients include - Invert sugar (brown or raw), glycerin, water, Gum arabic, demerara rum (denatured), Anethole (extracted from Anise) used in making ouzo.
The mixture of Anethole & rum is often referred to as peroco.
It seems like the flavour profile of three nuns is anise, rum and brown sugar.
Anethole is a very strong and a little goes a long way, it has a very high boiling point and is sweeter than sugar. Its flavour makes the smoke sweet and rich. Anethole basically smells and tastes like ouzo.
The manufactured perique seems to be a type of cavendish which is cooked under pressure and steam for a long time, to make it go black.
These ingredients are easily obtainable.
Believe it or not im going to try make a loose cut version of this and maybe press it to make a crumble cake, as I dont have or know how to get whole leaf tobacco.
I have purchased all the ingredients online and the early tests are promising.
I'm not exactly sure what type of virginia to use and what type of tobacco is used for the perique substite. I'm going to use white burley in my first attempt as perique is a type of burley.

I'm going to attempt to cook this in a pressure cooker as describe in the manufacturing process.
I cant see why the original recipe three nuns cant be made.
So I beg Macbaren or someone else to use the original recipe to make a classic version of three nuns. Macbaren could have two versions -
Three Nuns Modern and Threen Nuns original recipe.
***Update*** The experimenting is coming along ok, with some success but not quite there yet. I believe they used Virginia for making the perique substitute (type of Cavendish), as the white burley didn't have the right taste. So my next job is to make the perique substitute with Virginia.

I've tried blending rum and sweet sherry for use in the peroco, this makes it taste and smell more like plum pudding )

I've also tried adding peroco (three nuns flavour) to existing blends also with some success. The current version of three nuns with added perique and peroco isn't too bad actually.
If you want to try this at home add 14 to 20% perique to the current verion of three nuns (or other vaper)

Mix up some ouzo(real ouzo the one that goes cloudy when added to water), rum and sweet sherry and spray on a small amount. Give it time to meld.
Heres the references again -
Three Nuns Recipe

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/evl27a99/pdf

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/nvy96a99/pdf
Casings, flavourings and Additive Codes

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/vla13f00/pdf
Three Nuns Manufacturing process

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/ohz46a99/pdf
Molon (Invert Sugar) Recipes

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/ugu75a99/pdf

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/iio95a99/pdf
Recipe for denaturing demerara rum (Butite)

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/tid/ide27a99/pdf

http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/action/document/page?tid=bix57a99
Cheers
Tim

 

[JimInks]

Three Friars is nothing like the old Three Nuns. And I have a hard time believing it was made with that intent, though if it was, the experiment failed. I like it once in a while, but don't buy it thinking you'll get anything resembling the three ladies. Buy it for its own merits.
In today's world, there have been a few attempts to match the VaPer Three Nuns. It hasn't happened yet. You'd have to not only have the recipe, but get the tobaccos from the same place Imperial used to. PH Curly Cut, if you age it for a few years, may faintly taste like Three Nuns, but not enough to buy it for that reason. Wessex Brigade Sovereign Curly Cut is a poor attempt, too.

 

[zekest]

From the Pipes & Cigars website:

"Three Friars is intended to be similar to the original Three Nuns, but in composition, it’s somewhere between the original and the newer version, due to the addition of dark Burley. As a quality Va/Bur/Per, it can stand on its own without the comparisons."​

Three Friars, three bald headed guys in sack cloth robes, might not be as sexy as the Three Nuns in the Three Nuns ad, but the name as a juxtaposition to three Nuns, is kinda funny.

 

[JimInks]

Zekest: Whoever wrote that description obviously never compared them. I'd bet my cellar, and Peck's, and Harris' cellars combined that nobody who has smoked the VaPer Three Nuns or the current version, and Three Friars, would think they are close in any way. I spent 30 years smoking VaPer Three Nuns and still have a few tins. I've smoked the MacBaren version. I've been smoking Three Friars off and on the past year. The Friars is much less spicier, and more burley forward with a different flavor. I like it, but nope, no substitute.

 

[misterlowercase]

Hey Tim,

great stuff!!
Intense research there, and your experiments sound promising.
Thanks for sharing your incredible finds.
- - -
As for King's Head, it was just the stronger version, off the market for a long long time.
Similar to how Capstan came in 3 strengths, light (yellow), med (blue), and full (brown),

I wish that Imperial would have brought back Capstan Full too, but they declined.
In the ad it says of 3N "similar but milder"
I have a feeling that these baccies were named for pubs, both names were popular as such back then, when you start looking for three nuns info you start coming across references to Robin Hood and Jack the Ripper and tons of other stuff, same deal with King's Head, it's all pretty damn interesting!

Here are some sales figures from the UK market circa 1985...
Brand - % market share
Condor - 25.6%

St. Bruno - 23.0%

Mellow Virginia - 8.8%

Clan - 7.5%

Gold Block - 5.9%

Erinmore - 5.7%

Gallaher roll & bar - 3.5%

Whiskey Flake - 3.3%

3 Nuns - 2.3%

Player's Med Navy Cut - 1.2%
Not sure how well it was selling in the USA?

 

[ravenwolf]

Fascinating read. Thanks everyone for the information they've shared.

 

[saltedplug]

From what I know 3Nuns had two versions before current, Bell's and Imperial. Never smoked Bells but Heinrich Curly is said to be similar. I did smoke the Imperial and it was the best of the best. I'm surprised that some here say that either version can't be replicated. Yes the Imperial was topped, and the delectable taste of the flavoring made it a show stopper. Were the attempt made to replicate it, the recipe would need to be obtained. But overall I find 3Nuns to be a stout case for corporate chicanery, whacking the perique due to cost, discontinuing production of both prior version, keeping the "Bell's" name on the tin; as well as retailers advertising the current blend, touting its fame when both of the famed versions are no longer produced. I'm sure the current version is a fine tobacco, but it's very different than both of the prior versions.

 

[escioe]

Dear timpiper: thanks very, very much for posting all that. Keep us updated on the experiments.

 

[andrew]

I don't buy the perique is too expensive to use. Maybe back in the 80's, but John Patton's cool hand fluke has 40% perique and it's only about 35$ a pound, C&D's Morning bayou contains 25% perique and that's about the same price.

 

[condorlover1]

I have commented elsewhere on this forum about Three Nuns. In fact someone just paid an insane price of around $60 odd dollars for a 1990s tin of the stuff. Its like Balkan Sobranie, I never cared for it at the time when it was under five quid a tin. If someone gave it to me again I would use it to water down Condor. Those of you who know me well know that is not an idle comment either.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

I have never smoked the original Three Nuns, so this is pure conjecture, but HU Director's Cut is the same shape - little coins. And unlike some of the other Three Nuns imposters, this one has a heavy dose of perique - quite heavy in fact. It also has what I believe is some burley added to the blend, and I suspect this is where it likely diverges from the original Three Nuns. Good stuff, but not easily available on this side of the pond. I tried a sample of it tonight, courtesy of Pat (Pruss) who, in turn, received a generous sample of the blend from Flakey.
See http://pipesmagazine.com/forums/topic/hu-tobacco-directors-cut-snapshot

 

[JimInks]

Peck, Director's Cut has a few similarities to the VaPer Three Nuns, but as you noted, the burley is where it diverges. Also, the Virginia is different. There was a little more of a sweet and sour confluence in the old Three Nuns, too. However. DC is a truly great blend. And btw, if you haven't tried Strang, you are missing out on one of the best VaBur/Pers in the entire world. It's even better than Director's Cut... in my opinion, anyway. I'd list Strang as one of the top five tobaccos I have ever smoked, and if I could afford to buy it from Germany, I'd corner the market on it.
Here's my review of Motzek Strang:

This is a rope blend that cuts into coins fairly easily, though you should definitely dry it some before smoking because it will smoke wet. I packed the bottom with loose tobacco, stacked the coins, adding a little loose tobacco on top for an easier char lighting. By stacking the coins, you'll get all the flavors in nearly every puff, but if you decide to cube cut first, you'll be in for a variety of flavors in varying degrees per puff. The flavors are bold and forceful. A naturally tasting earthy, very slightly sweet brown Virginia amplified by strong nutty, earthy burleys, and further fueled by a blast of peppery perique. It's a flavor bomb, but not so powerful that it would knock you to your knees. A blend for discriminating smokers best served and sipped in a pipe with a wide bowl to savor the full experience of high quality tobaccos. Expensive and available only from Germany, it's one of the most entrancing blends ever made by anybody.
Director's Cut:

I'm not comparing this to the Vaper Bell's Three Nuns, but there have been times as I've smoked a bowl that I got a sense of that flavor. I think there's a little more perique and certainly more burley here than either the old or new Three Nuns. This is also a stronger smoke with more variety of flavors, all of which are amazingly wonderful. The perique is spicy and raisin/fig-like, so it's very complimentary without dominating the other tobaccos. The Kentucky is a tasty presence, at just the right amount to notice. Depending on how you stack the tobacco in the bowl, the flavor will change as you smoke it down. Sweet, spicy and a little sour at various times from puff to puff, there's not a weak or bad puff ever. Because it is very complex, the bigger the bowl you smoke it in, the more you will value the experience. One of the many things I really enjoy is that this has a full rounded smoke and doesn't overwhelm you any. I sure wish it was available for sale in the US. One of the best tobacco mixtures I've ever smoked.

 

[pipebow88]

Peck, Jim, why would you two go on about these two tobaccos to the point of having me salivating. Only to find out that it's hopeless and neither can be had in the US! I was trying to read faster through Jims description of Directors Cut, figuring surely atleast it could be had here.

B

 

[timpiper]

Your welcome mrlowercase.

It seems evident that the sales were poor for Gallaher roll & bar - 3.5%

Whiskey Flake - 3.3% 3 Nuns - 2.3% Player's Med Navy Cut - 1.2%
Must have been why they were taken off the market.
I've heard that Whiskey Flake was a good smoke.
-Tim

 

[timpiper]

Your welcome escioe.

Will try to keep everyone informed.
One thing I've learnt is if you add to much flavouring to a blend is becomes a very nasty experience.

Couple of times it put me off smoking for a while.
-Tim

 

[timpiper]

Thanks for the reviews Jim.

I've heard a lot of great things about Director's Cut.

I will be sure to get a couple of tins soon.

Never heard of Motzek Strang before, another one added to the list !!!!
Synjeco in Switzerland I believe have a number of ropes/twists that contain perique

http://www.pipesandtobaccos.com/pataall/taba/2020.php?i5s1s2
Also a blend called bad nun II which has perique

http://www.pipesandtobaccos.com/pataall/taba/2010.php?i5s1s1
Haven't ordered from them as they want you to send your credit card details by fax to keep on record.

Then you have to email them an order form to make an order. Not as easy as I'm used to with every other online shop I order from.
Is there any way you/we can convince Macbaren to make an original recipe version of three nuns.

Can we start a partition or something.

I noticed smokingpipes has three nuns near the top of their sales chart, so it must be a good seller.

Macbaren does make multiple versions of their blends, like mixture modern, mixture flake etc
They couldn't change the current version as folks who now love it would complain, ironic but true I'm sure.
Thanks -Tim