A Proposition

[aldecaker]

Much has been made lately in the "cobs vs. briars" debate. Snobbery has been accused on both sides; partisan passions run high. An argument has been made that the $6.50 cob smokers have simply never smoked a superior pipe. This leads to an un-level playing field. Almost anyone can afford a $6.50 cob; very few can afford a high-dollar artisan pipe. Here is where my proposition comes in.
One of our esteemed members, Mr. Walt Cannoy, is a pipe artisan of undisputed skill and reputation. I would like to commission Mr. Cannoy to make the best possible briar pipe, of similar bowl dimension to the best-selling Missouri Meerschaum Legend, that can be made. The size is kind of a one-size-fits all, and should be acceptable to flake smokers, ribbon smokers, etc. The finish, of course, is irrelevant and should be decided by Mr. Cannoy himself. The only caveat is that the pipe should accommodate a standard MM filtered stem, and the mortise be able to accept a Grabow or Medico filter. The reason is simple: much in the spirit of the Box Pass, the pipe will be forwarded from member to member, who, using their own fifty-cent MM stem, can experience smoking an artisan pipe, and compare it to their cob experiences. Some prefer filters, some do not. They can then weigh in on a thread started for that purpose. My budget for this project is no more than $500 USD. (I would definitely like the pipe back after everyone has tried it out!) Please weigh in and let me know what you think; if no one would be interested, it would be pointless to pursue.

 

[seacaptain]

The briar pipe should be rusticated to look exactly like a cob. Not because it makes any difference, but just because I want to see it.

 

[gloucesterman]

Interesting challenge. I'm not a big cob fan but I'd be interested in making the comparison.

 

[aldecaker]

Not a challenge at all. Quality briar craftsmen have nothing to be challenged on, and I don't want this to be taken that way! Simply looking for the comparison value. I picked Mr. Cannoy because he is a fellow forum member, and a respected craftsman.

 

[danielplainview]

Yes!
Walt, send me a free masterpiece and I'll tell you if it's better than a cob.

 

[jpmcwjr]

I'd be willing to go with a seconds- from Walt, that is, and that is, if he has any such!
Now I can't find how to delete or change my sig. line....

 

[cortezattic]

The proposal does not address tobacco blend issues. Taint that briar with a Lakeland or Latakia and I'll think it's pretty lousy.
And there is the phenomenon of pipe "seasoning". Every pipe I have ever smoked has improved with additional use.

I think my best smoker is my oldest pipe (altho I'll grant that its status in my rotation may be the result of "natural selection".)

And I don't doubt that someone's 10 yr. old cob will be more satisfying than a relatively "green" briar.
Just my 2¢

 

[warren]

Nor does it address the variable of different smokers having different criteria for determining what makes a good smoker. I've gone through a bunch of pipes over the years to come up with a mere handful of, what I consider, grand and trustworthy smokers.
Way too much subjectivity involved in such a competition. Tight draw? Free draw? Lastly! I'm not putting anything in my mouth that has been in some other person's mouth. (This is a great opening for those of you specializing in the double entendre.)

 

[philobeddoe]

Aldecaker, this is a very generous offer, to afford each member a chance to smoke a Walt Cannoy briar. However, I can see several potential glitches in your plan. First, it rather defeats the purpose of smoking a high quality artisan briar pipe if you are going to hamstring it with a godforsaken filter. Second and perhaps more importantly, there are two very entrenched camps here, and it is my belief that no amount of evidence, even first hand knowledge, is going to sway certain members from their opinions. I appreciate your desire to put this argument to rest and I am bowled over by your generosity and your trust, as the box pass has had a bad habit in the past of disappearing, a $500.00 pipe would seem to be in even greater migratory danger. Good luck if you do decide to go through with your experiment.
-Philobeddoe

 

[gloucesterman]

Walt, sorry for the choice of words. I wasn't implying the need for the pipe maker to measure up, just referring to the competitive nature of the proposal.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

Dave:

Yes!
Walt, send me a free masterpiece and I'll tell you if it's better than a cob.

aldecaker:

My budget for this project is no more than $500 USD. (I would definitely like the pipe back after everyone has tried it out!)

warren:

I'm not putting anything in my mouth that has been in some other person's mouth.

aldecaker:

the pipe should accommodate a standard MM filtered stem... *snip* ...the pipe will be forwarded from member to member, who, using their own fifty-cent MM stem, can experience smoking an artisan pipe, and compare it to their cob experiences.

 

[Chasing Embers]

I have artisan, factory, meer, gourd, and cob. All are wonderful, and each has unique characteristics. Really don't put any above the other, they're just different.

 

[sablebrush52]

I own a half dozen of Walt's pipes and can attest to their quality.
That said, I think that it is safe to say that no decent pipe can be bought for under $50,000. So this test wouldn't really prove anything.
Also, given that most of us aren't big fans of sloppy seconds, frothy 50ths probably wound have little appeal.
But it is an interesting idea.

 

[seagullplayer]

I don't know that I want to look behind the curtain.
This might be one of those times where I might be wrong, but I would rather go on thinking I am right.
In this case what I think I know is better for my pocket book.
It is a very generous offer. And a test that needs to be done.

But I would rather tell the story about it than participate.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

I wonder if part of the contention here isn't that when someone says Briar "might be better", it also implies that they currently think that Cobs are "better".

When as far as I can tell the material used is almost totally irrelevant beyond the ability to resist heat and not give off an acrid smell.

Really we should be using ceramics, but culturally Briar is what is associated with tobacco, and that in my opinion is the biggest factor supporting the use of that material in tobacco pipes.

Actually the style of pipe we use may be nearly legally enforced.

I would love to have a rainbow anodized titanium pipe with Nyan Cat etched on it, but something like that could probably get me arrested depending on the area.

 

[newbroom]

This topic should be posted in the 'Sticky Thread' entitled: "Stuff I Thought of While Smoking My Pipe"

or the other sticky: "Exercises For the Wandering Mind"

 

[judcole]

An interesting idea,but why anyone would want to take a good quality briar and stick a $.50 MM stem on it - not to mention a filter, as was already mentioned - is beyond me. ::

 

[wcannoy]

The only caveat is that the pipe should accommodate a standard MM filtered stem, and the mortise be able to accept a Grabow or Medico filter.

This one line speaks volumes of what I now believe is a sort of communication breakdown on the issue of cob vs. briar discussions.
When one compares the two, are they simply referring to the material that makes up the bowl? Are they implying that there is little discernible difference in the smoking properties between the two if everything from the shank to the button are exactly the same?
One of the most fundamentally held tenets of the pipemaking profession is the fact that the most important factors influencing the quality of the smoking experience are "engineered" into the shank and stem. Most high-grade pipemakers will argue that the most important part of the pipe, from a functional standpoint, is the couple of inches or so on the end that interacts with the user's mouth.
And so it follows, that when I address the differences between a cob, and a low grade factory briar, and a mid-grade factory or artisan briar, and a high grade briar, I am talking about the pipe as a whole, from the chamber to the button.
To have a constructive "debate" on the pros and cons of various pipes, the parameters should be understood across the board.
I will happily concede that a bowl made of corncob will smoke similarly to a bowl made of briar, all other factors being equal.
But all other factors are not equal. Not by a long shot. I, and my colleagues, put as much work into the making of a stem as we do the stummel... because it makes a huge difference.

 

[Sjmiller CPG]

Mr. Cannoy's comments make a lot of sense.

 

[robwoodall]

Walt,
Unfortunately, you do make a lot of sense. It would not be a fair comparison.
OK, new challenge!
Walt can supply EVERY SINGLE FORUM MEMBER (with more than 100 posts) with a $500 dollar pipe to smoke, similar in size and shape to a cob, but correctly engineered. Each forum member will be responsible for their own cob, and then we can get a good comparison going!
I'll be checking my mailbox for mine...
I am joking, of course!
And, actually, even with the inherent issues, I still think the original idea would be a fun exercise.