A & C Petersen Tobaccos Still Available?

[ohin3]

Does anyone know if A & C Petersen is still producing tobacco? I do notice that Escudo is still being sold under that moniker at Smokingpipes, but I never see any of their other tobaccos for sale on any site. My Local B & M had a half dozen tins of Caledonian Select Reserve No. 466 left till I spotted them and buddy is looking into availability but he moves slower than shit rolling up hill in the winter. The Caledonian Special Reserve line was so so so so good. Would love to get my hands on the navy blue tins which were Virginia/perique, and their Oriental mixtures are some of the very finest. Any help is much appreciated.

 

[4noggins]

I believe A & C Petersen is alive and well but does not export their product into the USA. That's why none of the retailers here have their blends available.
Rich

4noggins.com

 

[ohin3]

Hmmm...I will have to see if my B&M guy here can get them. Thanks for the info Rich.

 

[cigrmaster]

roth, the only thing I can figure is that they don't make enough to satisfy demand over there so why export it here if the supply will be minuscule? I would think that a company would want to be represented here, considering how large the market is, but they must be making enough money so they don't have to.
Escudo is no longer being made by AC Peterson.

 

[sparroa]

I believe they were afraid of liability in future Big Tobacco lawsuits in the litigious US of A...
I have read something to that effect, though I must admit I am too lazy to find supporting documentation.
I will agree, though, that it is quite a shame that we cannot obtain many marvelous European blends...

 

[jpberg]

Who's making it?

 

[lordwolf]

oh Escudo.... Always keep a few tins of that stuff lying around. ^_^

 

[sparroa]

Escudo is made by STG, aka Orlik.
Numerous etailers still list it under A&C Petersen - I don't mind because it makes it easier to find.

 

[hfearly]

A & C Petersen SA went out of business in 2011:

Overview

Entry in the commercial register:14.04.1998

Deletion from the commercial register:21.09.2011

Legal domicile of the company: Zug (ZG)
Number of the commercial register:CH-170.3.022.040-1

Commercial Registry:Canton of Zug
Alfred & Christian Petersen SA, in Zug, CH-170.3.022.040-1, Aktiengesellschaft (SHAB Nr. 93 vom 17.05.2010, S. 23, Publ. 5633520). Aktiven und Passiven (Fremdkapital) gehen infolge Fusion auf die American-Cigarette Company (Overseas) Limited, in Zug (CH-170.3.015.248-5), über. Die Gesellschaft wird gelöscht.

The German text is saying they were bought by the American Cigarette Company Ltd.
However, the trade mark for "ESCUDO" was already sold to Orlik / Scandinavian Tobacco Group in 2004 (not that it says March 2006, but the application to transfer the trademark to STG was already placed in 2004, so they had already taken over back then.

ESCUDO Trademark 78474633
Trademark Serial #:78474633

Trademark Date:03/21/2006

Current Status:PUBLICATION AND ISSUE SECTION

Status Date:03/21/2006

Employee Name:CHOSID, ROBIN S

Address:HANNAH Y. CHUNG, ESQ.

COWAN, LIEBOWITZ & LATMAN, P.C.

1133 AVENUE OF THE AMERICAS

NEW YORK NY 10036-6710
Trademark Details

"NAVY DE LUXE" and "FINE TOBACCO"
The mark consists of the word ESCUDO in an arc shape, enclosed in a circle (together with the words NAVY DE LUXE and FINE TOBACCO).
PIPE TOBACCO
The English translation of the Spanish word "Escudo" in the mark is "shield".
Trademark Owners

Owner Name:SCANDINAVIAN TOBACCO GROUP ASSENS A/SAddress:TOBAKSVEJ 1

ASSENS DK-5610Nationality Country:DKNationality State:N/A

Additional Owner

Owner Name:ORLIK TOBACCO COMPANY A/SAddress:TOBAKSVEJ 1

ASSENS 5610Nationality Country:DKNationality State:N/A

Additional Owner

Owner Name:Alfred & Christian Petersen SAAddress:Zaehlerweg 4

Zug CH-6300Nationality Country:CHNationality State:N/A

Now I still have a tin from November 2005 in my cellar which has the AC Peterson labeling, but it's possible that it is already the new product (production at Orlik), but still having the old labeling because the trademark had not been transferred yet to STG. So if you want the original old Escudo product make sure to look for tins earlier than August 2004.

 

[jpberg]

I don't have any that new. All mine say Cope's.

 

[cigrmaster]

Jp, are you serious? If you are those tins are worth a ton.

 

[sparroa]

You are smoking the good stuff, then, because Cope's Escudo is quite a bit older than A&C Petersen.
You will only find the STG Escudo at the major etailers - it has been that way for a number of years.
The transition dates are before my time, but consider yourself fortunate to have such old stock on hand.
hfearly, thanks for doing that homework for us.
Escudo was the name of an old Spanish/Portuguese coin - quite a fitting name.
Anyway ohin we have gotten off track but it looks like A&C Petersen bit the dust last year.
I don't know if they have licensed their products to anyone else in advance, or if the assets were scooped up, or if they are lost to the sands of time...

 

[john218]

Has anybody ordered those blends from overseas tobacco shops?
If so, what has your experience been with customs, import duties, etc.?

 

[jpberg]

Jp, are you serious? If you are those tins are worth a ton.

I have a couple sleeves that I bought in 87 or 88. I've smoked some since, but it's not really my bag.

 

[sparroa]

Even if it's not illegal (and I am not sure of the status) you cannot use a credit card so that makes it majorly inconvenient and risky.
On top of that, the tobacco taxes already make the tobacco cost double from the get go - add in shipping and possible duties and it is easy to see why its an uncommon practise...
jpberg,
I don't know why you are sitting on those tins if they are not really your style. You could sell them for a pretty penny or use them as trade bait for just about any tobacco in the world.
Anyway, suit yourself! I'm sure they are good whenever you do get around to smoking them.

 

[ohin3]

Wow so I made the right move to buy up the last of those Select Reserve no. 466 tins. Bummer that they went out of business. The Caledonian Virginias were so tasty.

 

[misterlowercase]

Did anyone publish an article about why that is the case? If so, I must have missed it. I don't know if my answer to this is "it's the economy, stupid," and I certainly don't have an MBA in international marketing, but come on -- there's gotta be money to be made here -- why isn't anyone picking up distribution for Capstan and those other great blends and selling them on this side of the pond?

Roth, this is a bone of contention with me too. I wish there was an article published somewhere explaining it all, but I haven't seen one anywhere and I've been looking into the issue a good bit lately.
It's really a shame because they are good stuff, however many are only former shadows of what they once were now that they're made in Denmark or Germany. Most of the ones we'd like to get are very old recipes and have very long histories, but for the most part they're all OTC or "newsagent" brands which have been traded back 'n forth amongst various entities and all the merger activity has made international trademarks a very convoluted matter.
The short answer:

Many companies didn't want to pay extortion money to the govt and thus decided to pull out of the American market instead. This was due to the MSA settlement & later the PACT act.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/111/s1147

PACT act



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement

1998



"...the companies agreed to curtail or cease certain tobacco marketing practices, as well as to pay, in perpetuity, various annual payments to the states to compensate them for some of the medical costs of caring for persons with smoking-related illnesses."
http://bat.library.ucsf.edu/history.html
The long answer:

This requires a lot a boring reading about business matters. Many issues stem from the massive amalgamation that went on in the British tobacco industry where the companies where all gobbled up and put under one roof. Famous blends were assets, like Three Nuns which was created by Bell's who merged with Stephen Mitchell & Sons in 1904 then in 1957 amalgamated with W.D. & H.O. Wills.
Some of the original UK tobacco houses:
Belfast, Murray & Sons

Belfast, Thom. Gallaher

Bristol, Edwards, Ringer

Bristol, Franklyn, Davey

Bristol, Hudden & Co

Bristol, W O Bigg

Bristol, WO & HD Wills

Devizes, G & W Anstie

Cork & Dundalk, TR & R Goodbody

Dublin, PJ Carroll & Co

Exeter, Lloyd

Edinburgh, John Cotton

Glasgow, F & J Smith

Glasgow, J & F Bell

Glasgow, Stephen Mitchell & Son

Paisley, George Dobie & Son

Liverpool, Cope Bros.

Liverpool, Hignett Bros.

Liverpool, Ogden's

Liverpool, Wm Clarke & Son

London, American Tobacco Co

London, B Morris & Son

London, Carreras

London, Cohen, Weenen

London, Lambert & Butler

London, Lloyd

London, Taddy & Company

Newcastle, John Sinclair

Nottingham, John Player & Sons
Now the trademarks for blends developed by many of these old companies are either owned by interests in Denmark or Germany, or in the case of Gallaher's, in Japan:

2007

TOKYO — Japan Tobacco has acquired Gallaher Group for $15 billion, both sides said Wednesday, in what was the biggest Japanese overseas acquisition ever.
BAT owned a large portion of the trademarks and sold them all off.
In 2004, Bat shut down the Murray's factory:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3957589.stm
Some history here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Tobacco
https://www.imperial-tobacco.com/index.asp?page=43
Comprehensive reading here:

W. D. and H. O. Wills and the Development of the UK Tobacco Industry: 1786-1965
It's really a bummer how the grand old UK tobacco houses have been cannibalized beyond belief, a sad story.
I think the whole story has a merit of interest and I'd like to get some solid answers, but really I just don't know.

Castles made of sand.​

...

..

.​

 

[cigrmaster]

I have a couple sleeves that I bought in 87 or 88. I've smoked some since, but it's not really my bag.

JP, you do realize what kind of money those tins can bring right? I would not be surprised if they went for well over 200.00 each. Another 10 years and they will go for probably double that.

 

[misterlowercase]

:lol:
I hear ya, it can be maddening!
I'm just fascinated with this stuff, especially on the historical tip of the divergence between American and British tobacco production, our stuff was nothing like theirs in large part due to the Purity Law in the UK and also many of the odd scents/flavours came about b/c many of them started out in snuff which had a broad range of different aromas applied in the manufacture.
This quote from a snuff miller in 1789 could very well be applied to British pipe tobacco as well, the specific scents of Condor, St. Bruno, Erinmore et al
"There are secrets of infinite consequence to the possessors - it is upon philosophical principles and by a philosophical process that a snuff manufacturer works his snuff, and which process he has formed on great attention, industry, experience, and observation of the natural qualities of different sorts of tobacco - and by which means he has acquired a peculiarity of flavour known only to himself."

 

[john218]

Lots of interesting information here.
Thanks, rothtnh and simenon for the feedback on buying from overseas.