A Beginner's Pipes Cost $900

[cigrmaster]

If the guy is selling every pipe he makes at the prices he is charging then the prices are not too high. I personally would not pay that kind of money for his work but that is just my opinion. I am not crazy about his shaping although the pipe peck bought is his nicest to my eye. I would rather buy 2 Rad Davis pipes and get a hundred bucks worth of tobacco for 900.00. I know Rad's pipes are going to smoke incredible and I am sure this guys pipes do not smoke better or even as good. I have bought pipes that today would sell for 1500.009 back in 2000 they retailed for 700-900.00) and not a one smoked better than a Rad and only my Formers smoked almost as good as a Rad.
There are a number of artisans today that make pipes that smoke great in the 350-500.00 price range and you are really just paying for grain and looks when you make the jump to 900 plus. Now if your thing is to chase grain( like I used too) and can afford it then I say go for it if it makes you happy.

 

[sablebrush52]

Price can equal perception. Early in my career I was not getting much work and was struggling to gain a foothold in the industry. I was pricing my work at what I thought was an attractive rate, but not getting anywhere. On the advice of a friend I started quoting double the rate. Within a couple of months I was awash in clients and stayed that way for years.
A lot of people believe that price equals quality.
Peck, congrats on the pipe. The grain and staining are beautiful.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

Actually, Rad's smooth pipes start at $800 and I have seen several over a thousand. So 2 for 1 isn't the right comparison.

 

[daimyo]

Rad does have pieces in the 400 range but you have to get them directly. That said, I haven't watched his site enough to know how often they go up there.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

I have been watching it for a couple of years and have never seen a smooth Rad for less than $800. His blasts are all $400 give or take

 

[daimyo]

Yes, I suppose that distinction would cover it. Now that you mention it, I don't think I've seen any of his smooths for that price either.

 

[cigrmaster]

peck, I forgot to say Rad's blasted pipes are 400 or so. I know Rad's smooths are way up there as well which is why I have never bought one. For me it just is not worth it to pay for grain on a new pipe. Now when I can score great grain on an estate I totally go for it.

 

[andrew]

http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/Ray-Kurusu/index.cfm
Well they're all sold, I'm with Peck though, if I were to spend 900+ on a pipe I wouldn't want a mass produced factory piece, I think the demand will only drive these prices up. Personally I won't pay for than 60$ for a pipe, I grabbed a block meershaum today and a really nice canadian made briar for 40$ today, but I just smoke tobacco for enjoyment. I'd feel silly holding some of these artisan pipes. Peck's though is a nice traditional looking one though.

 

[cigrmaster]

Andrew, some day you should try and grab and estate artisan pipe( you can get luck and pay 135-175.00) as the smoking properties are in my experience very different than smoking a factory pipe. A hand cut stem( made from high quality German Vulcanite) that is really well done makes a significant difference in how a pipe performs. Also a pipe that never needs a pipe cleaner for excess moisture is for me a very big deal.
You can get very traditional looking artisan pipes that no one would think was any different than any of your other pipes. All of my artisan pipes are traditional shapes that look very normal.

 

[andrew]

Yeah I've got a Danish Pride freehand that I believe is a Preben Holm era as it's Ben wade. It's beautiful, not too big, I enjoy it alot. Got it for 18$.
The Pipe I got today I did some searching as I'd never heard of it before, just had that feeling I had to get it. 15$ Here's what I found Too cool with Michael I found on this thread.

Good day John;

Leonard Payne was based in B.C. for many years. He came to Canada

from England. He had shops in Surrey, B.C. and Kelowna, B.C.

Interesting fellow. Gruff as the day is long. When you bought a pipe

it was handed to you in a paper bag. No sock, no box. Most of his

pipes carried a "carburator" system at the shank / stem junction.

Another Payne idea was his shanks. Almost all his pipe were two

pieces. He'd turn the bowl and shank, then cut off the shank and re

attach with glue. ( not always with the same piece of briar, so many

did not match grains ) His thinking was that the shank being the

weakest link, if cut and glued would never break and thus "correcting"

the weakest link.
You may find his pipes on E-Bay on occasion listed as a L Cayne. The

P in his stamping looks more like a fancy upper case C.
Hope this helps.
Regards

Michael J. Glukler

 

[peckinpahhombre]

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[ssjones]

On Peck's pipe, that ring on the stem adornment also caught my eye. I don't make pipes but that had to be a challenging addition to the stem. The brand stamp on the bottom of the bowl is also amazingly detailed for the font size. I didn't appreciate the work required for a briar to bamboo stem, thanks for that info Mike. That is one beautiful pipe.

 

[metalheadycigarguy]

Here is one perspective on the subject. How much do you make in a days worth of work? $75, $150 or even $300 in a days work... so why can't a pipe carver make that much in one day?
Just last night while on Skype I was talking with a well known premium pipe carver who makes amazing pipes of very high grade. He'll spend 2-3 days just sanding a pipe. That doesn't count the actual carving and staining etc. It typically takes him one week or so to make one pipe from start to finish. If he works on the pipe 8 hours a day for a whole week; why shouldn't he charge $600 to $900 for his work? He has every right to charge what he feels his pipes are worth and if someone buys it then they'll get themselves a very good high grade pipe.
I know of a few pipe makers that have 3 years or less experience, and one with less than a years experience of making pipes; that make very good quality smoking pipes. They are very nice and they do very well with their sales. I can't afford most of their pipes, but I have no problem with them charging the price that they do charge. Its their right to charge what they feel their product is worth.

 

[peckinpahhombre]

Interesting thought.
Another somewhat related thought is the one Walt made above. I had a discussion a few weeks ago with one well known carver about why he sells his pipes on smokingpipes - that is, why would you sell a $1000 pipe on smokingpipes and net $500 when you can sell the same pipe directly from your site for $1000 and net the full amount? In this particular case, he actually has more commissions than he can handle, but he still sells a certain number of pipes through SP every year.
He told me that it is really advertising for him and a way to keep his name out there, a bit of a loss leader if you will. He indicated that he gets a great many commissions just because someone saw his pipes on SP. Having his pipes featured at SP draws clients to his site.
So for a $900 pipe, the carver nets $450. One wonders how many hours Kurusu put into the pipe shown above and what that translates to in terms of an hourly rate. I'll bet he ain't getting rich. What is odd about Kurusu is that he doesn't seem to have his own site, at least that I can find. It looks like his pipes are sold primarily through SP, Al Pascia, Scandpipes and Quality Briar, though I imagine he does get some commissions (though I couldn't find out how I could commission one from him - since he doesn't have a site that I could find!)

 

[crazypipe]

My Zen master once said to me, "Do the opposite of whatever I tell you."
:rofl:
Mine told me, up is down and sideways is stright ahead :rofl:

 

[wcannoy]

He told me that it is really advertising for him and a way to keep his name out there, a bit of a loss leader if you will. He indicated that he gets a great many commissions just because someone saw his pipes on SP. Having his pipes featured at SP draws clients to his site.
So for a $900 pipe, the carver nets $450. One wonders how many hours Kurusu put into the pipe shown above and what that translates to in terms of an hourly rate. I'll bet he ain't getting rich. What is odd about Kurusu is that he doesn't seem to have his own site, at least that I can find. It looks like his pipes are sold primarily through SP, Al Pascia, Scandpipes and Quality Briar, though I imagine he does get some commissions (though I couldn't find out how I could commission one from him - since he doesn't have a site that I could find!)

Exactly.
My average selling price on a pipe is probably between $550-$600. There is only a certain percentage of pipes that I can afford to wholesale at that price point. I choose smokingpipes.com as my only retailer, for now, because the exposure is worth the difference in my take on that limited number of pipes. The rest of my pipes get sold directly from me to the customer, mostly through my site. This keeps the bottom line balanced and keeps the bills paid.
If, like Ray, I had no direct sales, and was only wholesaling, I expect I would need a retail price point average of close to $900 to earn the same income that I have with my current arrangement.
BTW & FWIW, this work week I rejected three pipes due to flaws that did not pass my quality standards. I am half-way finished with one pipe. If this pipe makes it to completion, and I expect it to be about a $450 pipe, I will have grossed $250 income this week. That's not to say that some weeks aren't better than others. Sometimes I might gross $1000 in a week. On average though, as a full-time pipemaker, having been the target of many debates over the seemingly ridiculously high prices of handmade artisan pipes... I could probably earn better money flipping burgers. But that would be no fun.

 

[ssjones]

Ultimately, the market will sort out what a pipe is worth,

With this type of "luxury" good, I don't think that is applicable in the typically accepted sense. The pipe collectors buying these kind of pipes has to be incredibly small in the overall pool. With such a niche group, there are bound to be anomalies.

 

[allan]

I think Walt and Metalhead caught my feelings in the matter. Working with my hands and realizing there are only a certain amount of hours in any day, how much time does it take to really make a fine artisan pipe? To make sure that the airways are of the right dimensions, that the stem is shaped perfectly, that the balance is optimum, the briar etc etc.
And in the end, are you the consumer willing to pay for that time and effort? Many can't afford it, or don't find it makes a difference. That's fine.
For me the challenge is to find a carver that has that price tag and is worth it, which I find to be much more difficult. All of the pipes are pretty, all polished extremely well, photographed beautifully. But the inner workings, are they sound?
As Harris has mentioned innumerable times before, one such carver is Rad Davis. There are many more of course. But I know that every time I sink the money into a Rad Davis pipe, I am sure that it will be worth it.
Until a carver is proven by word of mouth, I'll just have to wait.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

And to echo what Mike is saying, handmade is growing in demand across the board for most things. There was a huge surge in the 70's for hand crafted, and it's happening again; ceramics, silverware, jewelry, clothes, and all forms of woodwork.
What I had poorly said earlier in the string that seemed to strike a nerve in Walt, is not that I thought that making a pipe was easy (per say) but that I was surprised that so pipe making has hung onto this system of learning from a "master" instead of just figuring it out or learning from the plethora of information out there.
But yes, as I have my rotation of pipes established, I will only buy hand crafted. I love my Savinellis, Nordings, Stanwells, and Hilsons, but I find that I get a lot more pleasure from enjoying something different, well crafted, and details that you'll never find in something that rolls off an assembly line.
But, as far as something retaining a value in hopes of getting a bigger return later, phhht, I do't trust the market enough to do that. I've read enough about the history of crafts and have seen first hand what happens. I will save and purchase in hopes of enjoying my pipes now. I have no aspirations of someone willing to pay me more later for my pipe than I gave for it. They can bury the things with me for all I care.
Thanks Mike for dealing in these wonderful pipes for us.

 

[allan]

But, as far as something retaining a value in hopes of getting a bigger return later, phhht, I do't trust the market enough to do that. I've read enough about the history of crafts and have seen first hand what happens. I will save and purchase in hopes of enjoying my pipes now. I have no aspirations of someone willing to pay me more later for my pipe than I gave for it.

As this quote from Cosmic clearly says, buying a pipe because you enjoy/respect the craftsman's work is one thing; buying it for an 'investment', well, that clearly is another thing entirely.